Feb 27, 2021, 10:06 pm

News:

New, New TardisBuilders!


Tennant Era Console

Started by superrichi1a, Sep 14, 2014, 09:50 pm

Previous topic - Next topic

superrichi1a

Thanks Dino! With regards to the rim I was hugely amused, and somewhat astonished, as a non-building friend came round to look at it. I showed him the imperfections and he was like "what imperfections?" I bemusedly pointed out the overhangs and gaps, he looked at them like they barely existed, then declared in a matter of fact tone "duct tape!" Apparently duct taping the whole thing together is the answer, ah if only it had been than simple! But it does show how we think differently to normal, non-enlightened people ;) An imperfection to a builder is a personal ordeal, to other builders it's a small speed bump, and to the general public it's invisible. I guess thats something we all realise, still doesn't help the builder though!
I'll pass along the curvy compliment! I only hope if stays that way after I fit the cladding later today! *gulp* ;)
Isn't it how ironic that we have to think of solutions out of the box, in order to build our boxes a lot of the time?

superrichi1a

Actually I might as well ask this question too whilst I'm here ::)
My plan for the officially named "Thingy" or the informally named "Monitor Central Dias Stack" is to use essentially create a flat template out of hardboard, soak it and wrap it in on itself, creating the stack - thingy - in the same way as you might make a paper pointy hat or a paper megaphone or something similar. To strengthen this I could double up the hardboard and add a number of strips running up the inside which can screw into the outside, and ply formers top and bottom (the anchor ring forming the bottom). This method would be relatively strong and also keep it hollow! It would lack the concave shape of the original but I can live with that, and if it really bothers me I can add a aesthetic hardboard wrap-around to make it appear that it's concave (I know what I mean, it's difficult to explain!).
My big question for this, then, is how on earth do I make the monitor swivel?!? Glenn has done an amazing job on his stack - thingy - but quite apart from the fact that all seems like wizardry to me, I need mine to be hollow so it rules out the lazy Suzy.
I have a few unformed ideas, all of which involve compromise and difficulty, one being that if I create the thingy in two pieces I can add wheels to the bottom and support beams to the top so the top bit of the thingy can rotate, but then I run the risk of not allowing enough through space for the rotor :-\
At the very least I can live with a fixed monitor, or I've been looking at desk-clamp monitor swivel arms which would allow the monitor to move across perhaps 1/3 of the console circumference, but the full effect would still be nice!
Thanks :)
Isn't it how ironic that we have to think of solutions out of the box, in order to build our boxes a lot of the time?

kiwidoc

Quote from: superrichi1a on Sep 22, 2014, 12:46 pm

My big question for this, then, is how on earth do I make the monitor swivel?!? Glenn has done an amazing job on his stack - thingy - but quite apart from the fact that all seems like wizardry to me, I need mine to be hollow so it rules out the lazy Suzy.
Thanks :)


I know your pain!  I'm happy that mine currently looks right to the original but the way I've built on top of it is making the entire column swivel when I rotate the monitor so it can't really be used as-is.  Am giving some thought to going back and rebuilding it... when I can face it.  The lazy susan works well but does limit the internal space.  I'm considering creating a routered wooden ring for the monitor to attach to then routing a central disc for it to fit over and move around, with a number of recessed rollers to give it movement and reduce friction.  We'll see...

On the other hand, a limited range fo motion or even being fixed in one spot is not a major problem, I'm sure most casual viewers never even realised it moved (in the early days...)

galacticprobe

Sep 23, 2014, 05:30 am #33 Last Edit: Sep 23, 2014, 06:07 am by galacticprobe
Quote from: superrichi1a on Sep 22, 2014, 11:15 am
I bemusedly pointed out the overhangs and gaps, he looked at them like they barely existed, then declared in a matter of fact tone "duct tape!" Apparently duct taping the whole thing together is the answer, ah if only it had been than simple!

Duct tape: the handyman's secret weapon! Remember, if women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy. ;)

Quote from: superrichi1a on Sep 22, 2014, 11:15 am
I'll pass along the curvy compliment! I only hope if stays that way after I fit the cladding later today! *gulp* ;)

I'm sure the cladding will go just fine. If the cladding sounds like it's starting to "crack", just toss it back into the bathtub (or whatever you're using) for a bit longer of a soak.

Quote from: superrichi1a on Sep 22, 2014, 12:46 pm
My big question for this, then, is how on earth do I make the monitor swivel?!?


Quote from: kiwidoc on Sep 22, 2014, 08:51 pm
I know your pain!

Don't we all? ::) I've been trying to workout how they managed that, and I keep drawing a blank. No one I've talked to - and I mean no one - seems to have any ideas. I keep looking, and asking, and hoping that one of these days I'll find out the secret. And when I do you'll all be the second ones to find out. (I'll be the first, of course. ;D)

In the meantime, to help get everyone's "little grey cells" going, here's a nice close-up of that conical thingy and the swivel from the Eccleston days, before things got so dirtied up that it was hard to see how anything went together:
MonitorSwivel.jpg
It does look like there is a "conical cladding" sticking out a bit from a central core of the - thingy - and there is a definite gap between the swivel part and the rest of the structure. (Also notice the counterweights on this swivel are mounted on extended "arms" - sort of like the 2010 console's monitor swivel was. Never noticed that before. :P)

And something interesting just struck me. Looking at most of the photos of this monitor over the course of its run, I've never noticed any real cabling running inside of that mounting arm-tube. This makes me think of two possibilities:

1) its power and video cabling were mixed and blended in with all of that other cabling that ran rampant around this console, and it could all have been on the outside, running on the "far side" that we never got to see directly, or;
2) there was no real cabling coming from this monitor - only fragments, maybe, for show - and all of the graphics we saw during the show was post-production, and the monitor's face was covered with "green screen" material during the filming.

Both instances would eliminate the need for having cables stuffed down that mounting tube, and solve the problem of swiveling the monitor a full 360 degrees (which we never saw, and we also never saw it swiveled across the "near side" of the console).

I'd like to think it's #1 above, but both are plausible (and I would love for someone to prove me wrong here and tell us how it was done, if anyone knows!). As she sits now, at the DWE, with no swiveling being done there could be actual power and video cabling running to the monitor, but during the console's run in the Series?

I'm open for thoughts!

Dino.
"What's wrong with being childish?! I like being childish." -3rd Doctor, "Terror of the Autons"

russellsuthern

Sep 23, 2014, 08:52 am #34 Last Edit: Sep 23, 2014, 08:52 am by russellsuthern
Richard,
The speed and accuracy of your work staggers me!
I definitely get the feeling you guys are the Time Lord masters, whereas I'm still wet behind the ears in the Time Lord Academy!!

Russell

superrichi1a

Thanks guys, I'll keep considering it, and if I do find a way I'll of course share (don't bet on my ingenuity though!) Although Glen that's a very good idea, and it's given me an idea for a spin on that that I could try, hhhmmmm ;) I've never seen that good a picture of the swivel either, Dino! I see what you mean, very difficult to understand :P Maybe I'll try and contact Mark Cordory! Russell, hahaha well if we were like that, I'd be The Doctor of the forum! Just scraping through with 50% and improvising my way around any issues I come up with that most would do a sensible way with appropriate tools! I'm still quite amazed how you source all your materials though, I have much to learn :)

Well, apologies, here is yesterday's progress, a tad late, and the last full free day of building I had. It doesn't look like much to post, annoyingly, but actually this had me working almost straight from midday to past nightfall; it was just heavy on all those jobs you never think about: drilling, screwing, gluing and the like.
One big leap forward! I fitted all my ribs to the anchor ring, marked each rib 1-6 and each panel/rim section A-F.

photo 5.JPG

The console now supports itself and has its fixed shape, hurrah! Each rib is held onto the anchor by two bolts that I screw up from the bottom so can be assembled or disassembled in perhaps 10 minutes (I'd like to cut it down to 5 as I get used to it).
I've also reinforced each rim section with fibreglass, good glue and hot glue, depending on how big and drastic a hole I had to fix; I'll need to do this again I think before I can add some filler (and add the top section, for that matter). At this point I also cut down each rim section to fit their designated console segment, two I made too short, total nightmare! I've had to glue bits back on and will reinforce later, I only hope they hold :o. I've now also hot glued backing to 4/6 rim recesses - one of those small and tedious jobs that you just get out of the way in bits.

I then began cladding the rib sections. I'll have to do some more work on these, filler, fixing and the like.

photo 1.JPG

3mm hardboard cut to the width of each rib, soaked in (very) hot water for several hours and screwed into the rib crossbars. It took two of my cut lengths to do each rib and they meet in the middle at the apex of the curve. The first one turned out OK but I decided that I needed to add in an extra crossbar to the rest to ensure it keeps exactly the correct shape on that bottom curve; I did this on the rest but will have to go back to the first. I'm also contemplating adding more crossbars retroactively to the others in areas where the hardboard jumps out a bit. There's nothing major, No More Nails may work, we'll see!
And I was left with this! I must say it's quite difficult to get a photograph of this prop at a good angle - you want to try and fit in as much as you can but never seem to be able to ::)

photo 3.JPG

I even enlisted the help of a passing Dalek to get an action shot.

photo 4.JPG

photo 2.JPG

Thanks :)
Isn't it how ironic that we have to think of solutions out of the box, in order to build our boxes a lot of the time?

kiwidoc

It couldn't hurt to ask Mark Cordroy but I was i email contact with him about 6 months ago and he didn't really have a huge amount to do with the console other than adding some decorative pieces and the replacement panels in 2006.  The Console was built by another guy who is not on any social media that I can find and doesn't run his own sites or company so is next to impossible to locate.  Can't hurt to try a specific question or two but I'm afraid he wasn't able to help with any of my questions when I got in touch.

PS: Looking good.  :)

galacticprobe

Sep 24, 2014, 06:51 am #37 Last Edit: Sep 24, 2014, 06:51 am by galacticprobe
I'll say she's looking good! And she's growing very quickly, too! (You hardly have a chance to enjoy them as console-lings; they do grow so quickly sometimes. Just turn your back for a second or two, and when you look back, they're fully grown. They really are like our children, aren't they? ;))

If you do get a response from Mr. Cordory, I'd be very interested to hear what he has to say. Who knows? Maybe when he was installing those replacement cracked ice panels, he got a peak at how the monitor is wired, or how its swivel works. (You never know unless you ask.)

Dino.
P. S. Envy(small).jpg
"What's wrong with being childish?! I like being childish." -3rd Doctor, "Terror of the Autons"

vortex maker

Looking pretty good!

I can make virtual TARDIS's but I don't think I'll ever be able to make them in real life. Too much planning.

Keep it up!

superrichi1a

Hey everyone,
Been a bit quiet lately I know, I have had a few emails asking me how this is going and notes of encouragement, I'd like to thank everyone who took an interest like that! In effect though I have little to report. My plan was always to try and get the main structure done before I started a new job and winter set in, then when I finished the job in April hit full throttle again, hopefully having got some smaller individual controls built in the meantime, so I think that's pretty much still the plan!
Work has been a real pain in the backside, though, I get home too late to even have a shower most nights and at the weekends so far I've had little luck finding spare time.
Having said that, I have obtained a suitable rheostat that I can use for the near large rib. It's round, not hexagonal, but basically it looks alright, and I'll build up the two outer ones as hexagonals, covering it up a bit, I just didn't fancy trying to make the turning mechanism myself! I also took a punt at building the "thingy" (central dais swivel doodah) out of hardboard but it proved especially difficult to get the right shape, a rethink may be required :P
Unfortunately the next time I get a chance to work this won't be the project to see some progress, as all my sign box facades on my Police Box have dropped off (NEVER rely on "No More Nails" glue, some people swear by it but this is one too many times my builds have been let down by it) and 2 are damaged beyond use, the third... may be salvageable... if I'm lucky...
Ah well, eh, life rolls on, and I'm sorry this has been such a non-post, but now the thread and anyone interested is up to date with what's going on ;)
Isn't it how ironic that we have to think of solutions out of the box, in order to build our boxes a lot of the time?

superrichi1a

Feb 21, 2015, 06:22 pm #40 Last Edit: Feb 21, 2015, 06:37 pm by superrichi1a
Hey people,
Jeez? Was it really in September that  I last worked on this thing? Seems like last week :P As I stated my plan was to hold off as the weather got colder and return to the build after Christmas, which I've pretty much done. I love it when a plan comes together. I haven't been totally lazy over the last few months either, hopefully pretty soon I'll have enough to post on the smaller bits and bobs that  have been tiding me over in moments of boredom. Alas, it seems building season has not yet reached my small corner of the United States of Kingdom, so progress was annoyingly slow today. On the upside I was travelling through Cardiff yesterday and unexpectedly drove into the middle of Doctor Who filming! What are the chances, eh? If the angle they shot at was wide enough my car, parked on the side of the road as I stayed to watch, might even make it into "The Magician's Apprentice".
I wanted to tackle the central dais next, and I hope Dino doesn't mind be borrowing his photo from earlier on in the thread, but to clarify, I refer to this bit (also known as the "thingy", if you haven't met my sense of humour yet).

MonitorSwivel.jpg

This was always going to be a bugger to make, not just because of its unusual shape, but because my own build will require it to be relatively strong, sturdy, light, and be able to be attached and removed quickly and easily for frequent transportation. So from the start I knew it was a losing battle to be  honest, compromise would be unavoidable.
My first attempt to build this piece involved taking a very long piece of hardboard, cutting it into a layout of a cut-off cone shape and attempting to bend it into a vague dais shape. Didn't work. Maybe someone else will try someday and get better results.
For my second attempt I decided to basically use the same method I intend to use for the ceramic discs, I have no idea if it'll work yet, we'll find out soon enough!
I started by cutting out 3 discs out of 9mm MDF, each with the same 19 inch diameter hole in the middle. Seen here with the anchor ring.

IMG_1111.JPG

If anyone wants sizes, from largest to smallest the diameters are 27 inches, 24 inches and 21 inches. But I stress my measurements are almost certainly off the mark, as whilst I tried to keep scale with my original reference material and diagrams to start with a lot of them had to be fiddled with to suit the above construction restraints. Still, I shouldn't be overly far out.
Next I constructed the dais framework, on 3 levels, with the gap between the top two being 4.5 inches and the bottom two being 3.5 inches - I think the overall thing may be a tad too tall, but I don't think it's too noticeable, especially when you consider the real thing looks shorter than it is due to perspective and being hidden by the lower ceramic ring.

IMG_1118.JPG  IMG_1119.JPG

Then, I got an old curtain out. Yep, I'm building a spaceship with an old curtain, reminds you of your younger day's doesn't it? ;)
I took the curtain and started to clad the framework, using hot glue and panel pins to hold it to shape. I tried to keep it as smooth and taut as possible to avoid any sag or folds but it proved impossible to maintain that the whole ray round. It'll do, just means more finishing work. It's not actually as bad as it looks in some photos, the folds catch the light a bit.

IMG_1113.JPG  IMG_0022.JPG

So far so good... I trimmed the curtain down at the edges and folded it over for neatness, sticking it down with hot glue. One thing that immediately jumps out is that I have no counter curve at the bottom of the dais; I wanted to figure out a way to include this but doing so would have made it very difficult to bold the dais to the anchor ring, there not being enough space to manoeuvre bolts inside. It's an annoying inaccuracy but one I can live with, the extra height should compensate. Likewise I think it could use a bit more tapering of the profile, in real life it looks better than in photos, however, weird trick of perspectives. Unfortunately I was limited in how thin I could make the top as I have to be able to fit a time rotor through there, allowing me to change the height for different spaces, the rotor, as far as I know, is 20 inches in diameter, making mine 19 and keeping that top dain ring as small as possible seemed a god compromise.
The next step will be to saturate the curtain with fibreglass resin (did I mention my idea was totally mad?) and then fill/sand for a bit to get everything looking a bit neater. If that works I'll repeat this for the ceramic discs. Fingers crossed then!
Thanks for reading :)
Isn't it how ironic that we have to think of solutions out of the box, in order to build our boxes a lot of the time?

russellsuthern

Hi, Rich,
Welcome back! I'm really pleased you are making such good headway with your console, I was wondering how things were going.
It's looking great & I am extremely jealous!
My dream was to make a Dalek, A TARDIS & a console, but I think I'll have to settle for 2 out of 3, I just don't have anywhere to put it!
I shall be following future progress with great interest.
(And I agree, No more nails can be rubbish sometimes!!)


Russell

superrichi1a

Thanks Russell! :)
I actually started out with the hope to build a TARDIS, a Dalek and maybe a K9, but I somehow ended up with an extra Dalek and a console! I too literally have nowhere to store the console either... That's why it needs to be stored in bits... I just hope I'll figure out where to store it! I think maybe I could empty out the old shed at the side of the house and try to put some of it in there :-\
Isn't it how ironic that we have to think of solutions out of the box, in order to build our boxes a lot of the time?

galacticprobe

Feb 22, 2015, 06:04 am #43 Last Edit: Feb 22, 2015, 06:23 am by galacticprobe
Quote from: superrichi1a on Feb 21, 2015, 06:22 pm
Hey people,
Jeez? Was it really in September that I last worked on this thing? Seems like last week :P

Yes! Yes, it was that long ago, and some of me was going mad with anticipation! ;D (Nice to see things rolling again, by the way.)

Quote from: superrichi1a on Feb 21, 2015, 06:22 pm
On the upside I was travelling through Cardiff yesterday and unexpectedly drove into the middle of Doctor Who filming! What are the chances, eh? If the angle they shot at was wide enough my car, parked on the side of the road as I stayed to watch, might even make it into "The Magician's Apprentice".

I'd have better luck getting struck by a falling toilet seat from a disintegrating space station! (You'll have to tell us what kind and color your car is so we'll know what to look for!)

Quote from: superrichi1a on Feb 21, 2015, 06:22 pm
I wanted to tackle the central dais next, and I hope Dino doesn't mind be borrowing his photo from earlier on in the thread,

I don't mind at all; it's why I post such photos when I can (if I have them, that is). Share and share alike as far as I'm concerned.

Quote from: superrichi1a on Feb 21, 2015, 06:22 pm
but to clarify, I refer to this bit (also known as the "thingy", if you haven't met my sense of humour yet).

The NECK! I've been calling it "the NECK"! (And on occasion, "thingy", but mostly the neck.)

Quote from: superrichi1a on Feb 21, 2015, 06:22 pm
For my second attempt I decided to basically use the same method I intend to use for the ceramic discs,

The COLLARS! I think I've always been calling them the collars. (Makes sense since they sit on The Neck. ;))

Quote from: superrichi1a on Feb 21, 2015, 06:22 pm
I have no idea if it'll work yet, we'll find out soon enough!

Hopefully your luck will hold and everything will work out fine!

Quote from: superrichi1a on Feb 21, 2015, 06:22 pm
If anyone wants sizes, from largest to smallest the diameters are 27 inches, 24 inches and 21 inches.

And that's scaled back?! :o I wonder what those dims would be if they were full-size!

Quote from: superrichi1a on Feb 21, 2015, 06:22 pm
Next I constructed the dais framework,

You mean neck... ;)
Quote from: superrichi1a on Feb 21, 2015, 06:22 pm
...on 3 levels, with the gap between the top two being 4.5 inches and the bottom two being 3.5 inches - I think the overall thing may be a tad too tall, but I don't think it's too noticeable... the real thing looks shorter... due to perspective and being hidden by the lower ceramic ring.

Ceramic ring? Oh... you mean collar! ;D

Quote from: superrichi1a on Feb 21, 2015, 06:22 pm
Then, I got an old curtain out. Yep, I'm building a spaceship with an old curtain, reminds you of your younger day's doesn't it? ;)

Perhaps, but it's a novel approach to getting the curves right!

Quote from: superrichi1a on Feb 21, 2015, 06:22 pm
So far so good... One thing that immediately jumps out is that I have no counter curve at the bottom of the dais;

Oi! Neck! ;D And I wouldn't worry about that counter curve too much. It probably won't be notice missing unless you bring it to someone's attention. Besides, some time down the line if you figure out a way to get it in there, you can always add it in like an "aftermarket" upgrade.

Quote from: superrichi1a on Feb 21, 2015, 06:22 pm
Unfortunately I was limited in how thin I could make the top as I have to be able to fit a time rotor through there, allowing me to change the height for different spaces, the rotor, as far as I know, is 20 inches in diameter...

I think in another thread somewhere, someone got a peek at either a drawing, diagram, or other document that confirmed the diameter of the central column as 18 inches. So you've got a little more wiggle room than you thought. (I'd call that good news.)

Quote from: superrichi1a on Feb 21, 2015, 06:22 pm
The next step will be to saturate the curtain with fibreglass resin (did I mention my idea was totally mad?)

You wouldn't be here doing exactly what you (and just about the rest of us are doing) if you weren't totally mad!

Quote from: superrichi1a on Feb 21, 2015, 06:22 pm
...and then fill/sand for a bit to get everything looking a bit neater.

If you can spring for it, a layer of fiberglass cloth, and another or resin, should give the neck more structural integrity. I think that without the cloth the curtain fabric could flex enough to crack the resin. (That top layer of resin over the cloth would be mainly to smooth the surface so not as much sanding would be needed, and of course add that little bit extra strength as well.)

Quote from: superrichi1a on Feb 21, 2015, 06:22 pm
If that works I'll repeat this for the ceramic discs.

COLLARS!

Quote from: superrichi1a on Feb 21, 2015, 06:22 pm
Fingers crossed then!
Thanks for reading :)

Fingers and toes crossed, and good luck with everything! And it's always great to read your updates. (I'd have read things sooner, but for some reason last night the Forum kept freezing up on me. I think I managed to get one post in, and one PM answered, and then - BAM! - nothing but "...the server isn't responding" errors; after an hour of trying I called it quits. :P So the co-pilot apologises for not commenting sooner.)

Dino.
"What's wrong with being childish?! I like being childish." -3rd Doctor, "Terror of the Autons"

superrichi1a

Thanks Dino!
"Neck" and "collars" I must say are new ones to me, I see where you're coming from though :) Maybe I'll keep interchanging names in the future, that'll keep everyone on their feet ;)
As for my dimensions - well actually they should be pretty much full size! They've been scaled slightly in that I got my original dimensions wrong, so used my anchor ring as a reference point to scale them back up to close to the right size - it's just the shape that's inaccurate!
Actually I've been looking at this all night: on paper it all looks good, it seems to be about the right size at the bottom and as close to right size as I can get it on top. But I can't shake the feeling it'll look too thin around the bottom and actually what I should have done was made the bottom far wider ??? This would have also given me more of a curve so that my widening of the top was less noticeable. But maybe that's just because I think actually be as much as two inches too tall. I added an extra inch from my first calculations because it seemed to be the curve looked better like that, and I estimated I'd lost an inch in not having the counter curve at the bottom. But then I also didn't account for the extra inch that would be added by my 9mm discs in the framework, so I think the whole thing could be as much as 2 inches too tall, which I'm worried will look a bit off.
Maybe I'm wrong, I'm closer than I think and what the paper is telling me is closer on the money, it just looks wrong to me because it's not all in place yet and I can't see it in relation to the other sections. I guess worst case scenario would be to build another post-completion (and then maybe I could figure out how I can realistically add the counter curve and plan ahead for a swivel monitor), but until then Im confident enough that it shouldn't be as far out as my eyes are telling me, and even if it is I think I could potentially build the lower ceramic disc, collar, insulator ring, thingy above the thingy [delete as applicable] to hide as much as 1.5 inches of the dais, neck, thingy, space doo-dah [delete as applicable].
So there are certainly options, I'm just thinking aloud about what I should expect. I... I may even be planning ahead... Oops... malfunction! I never do that! I always just go in with no idea and hope for the best! What a scary prospect this is! :)
Isn't it how ironic that we have to think of solutions out of the box, in order to build our boxes a lot of the time?