Feb 27, 2021, 09:44 pm

News:

New, New TardisBuilders!


Tennant Era Console

Started by superrichi1a, Sep 14, 2014, 09:50 pm

Previous topic - Next topic

superrichi1a

Thanks Dino! I've never thought about temperature before, and I admit I was a bit worried about that last curve so I'll see what I can do, thank you for the advice :)

The rim progresses apace, each of the 6 mains structures are done, and frankly, it's appalling. Some of the worst work I've ever done! None of it is even, there are gaping holes everywhere where I didn't match the panels correctly, and my recessed are more reminiscent of the uneven ones on the original rim than the second set (though I dare say a fair bit more uniform!) It's a result of my hurrying, I'm ashamed to say. Next week much of my time will once again be taken up with work and winter is most certainly showing itself here in the (still complete, thank you Scotland!) UK, so the race to finish the big outdoor bits is on. I've modified my plans to suit - I'll simply fibreglass the insides solid and dump a load of filler on before sanding thoroughly. It'll still look a bit uneven, but I don't think will be too bad in the end. So, to the purpose of this update:

I was reading KiwiDoc's build diary recently and he discusses the crackle paint on the rim. Indeed, he suggests the "general consensus" that Plastikote "Heritage Gold" was used on the second rim, but also says to that his eye "Colony Cream" is a better colour match, before disregarding the matter due to how neither are easy to obtain outside the UK. This is a matter that has been weighing on my mind for a couple of years now, as it was originally me that piped up "Hey! That's Heritage Gold!" and I'm not totally sure it is anymore... My bad!
Having gone to the Experience in 2011 I recognised Plastikote instantly - I've used it more times than I can count for various projects, most relevantly for sonic screwdrivers. The tear like capillary cracks, the eggshell finish and the small areas of paint failure are all hallmarks of the stuff and what's more, the BBC has past history of using it, it being the easiest to obtain off-the-shelf crackle paint in the UK. It comes in two colours relevant here - "Heratige Gold" and "Colony Cream". Here's a pic of two of my cans side-by-side and you can see the differences, not in crack size, but colour:

Plastikote.JPG

The Gold is most certainly an off-yellow, and the cream is likewise off-white. No contest then, if you compare it to the TARDIS console rim the off-white looks far closer (top pic nicked from the reference section, bottom one of mine from the DWE) :

Console Comparison.jpg

It certainly looks to be Colony Cream, and that's what I'll be using on this build, but I'm still not 100% sure either way. Take a look at this:

Sonic Comparison.jpg

These sonics are BOTH painted in Colony Cream crackle, the top is the wide slider Sonic prop, and the bottom is an Aztec replica made by a friend of mine. The top one is over either a black or dark brown base coat (I prefer to use black) and the bottom is over a gold one. The look changes dramatically. And the same is true of Hertaige Gold, use a lighter base coat and it can look far lighter, though I don't think this is the case here as the base coat on the rim looks to be a dark brown.
The pictures of the rim above are both washed out with flash somewhat, if you take a properly-lit screen cap of the rim from an episode it appears far more yellow (give or take a bit off colour grading); if you look at the images above I've circled areas of the rim in red which the paint appears to be closer to the yellow again, and to my eye this is far closer to the Heratige Gold colour.
It's a confusing distinction and one that has plagued the Sonic Screwdriver world for years, now brought over to the TARDIS rim! The MFX screwdriver replica, for example, used Heratige Gold instead of Colony Cream because it matched many of reference pictures they could find and the grubby yellowed look of the Sonic "A" prop which they examined. In actual fact that A prop was painted in a porcelain crackle finish, totally different and originally in white, but if you look at the original props painted in Plastikote you can see how the confusion occurred. This shows why it's extremely difficult to discern what colour you're looking at the whole time. So this investigation is going nowhere really...

So, to try and end on some useful information, I would say I'm "fairly certain" that it was Colony Cream on the second rim painted over a dark brown base and given an extremely thick coat so that the cracks would be few but very large, KiwiDoc's judgement that he feels that is closer makes me more certain of this. However, whilst this appears this way in all pictures taken at the DWE, on screen it can often bear a closer resemblance to the Heratige Gold colour, and it may well be that, and just looks bleached out in the flash. Next time I go to the DWE I'll take samples of the paints with different finished, base coats and thicknesses and get a conclusive result.
One final theory is that both paint were used. They could well have been patched in together to give the coral a more aged and natural appearance, in fact given the great variations in colour in the rim pictures above I'd say that's highly likely and I'll be doing this on my rim (but only sparingly). Failing that, the paint does chip off the rim a fair bit, and can be seen thus in many DWE photos, and it could simply be the case that whereas it was once painted one colour it then got repaired in the other. Either way, I think the message to take away is that, as is common advice, choose the look that feels best for you, I personally think Heratige Gold is too yellow to be used alone, and Colony Cream is too white, thus I'll paint my rim in Cream and spray up from the bottom and around the edges with Gold so it gets a patchy, aging and yellowing look to it.
Thanks :)
Isn't it how ironic that we have to think of solutions out of the box, in order to build our boxes a lot of the time?

galacticprobe

Sep 20, 2014, 05:02 am #16 Last Edit: Sep 20, 2014, 05:29 am by galacticprobe
Wow! Very thorough examination of the crackle paint color! One more thing to consider with which color to use is the in-person vs. the on-screen difference. Remember that on-screen, there was a lot of amber lighting coming though those walls, and they also had green lights aimed at the console from the "4th wall" side of things (sometimes more green light than others, and on occasion, nothing but green).

Some reference images that might help:
Console(GreenLight).jpg
The console with some of the ambient room amber lighting, with some green spots in the console from that 4th wall;

GreenConsoleRoom.jpg
and the console room lit only with green lights from the 4th wall (with maybe a couple of roundels thrown in);

GlowFromColumn.jpg
A bit overhead, with some green glow from the column shining down (Tennant era, looking towards the 4th wall);

TARDIS-Console-9-10.jpg
Console in dim amber lighting, with no extra green spots shining on it (Eccleston year);

RimShot1.jpg
Edge-on "rim shot", Eccleston year - brighter amber lighting, and no 4th wall green spots;

RimShot2.jpg
Edge-on "rim shot 2", Tennant era - same angle, same panel, a bit brighter lighting;

4thWallShot.jpg
And finally (and this is a large photo, so open it in a new tab or window), a shot from that 4th wall with all of the stage lighting in view, most likely a publicity photo for that Children In Need special. In this one we have a decent color reference with Davison's coat; the red piping and the camel-color look about right, and the console's rim looks "Colonial Cream".

So you can see how the lighting, and don't forget the camera lens filters, can affect what color the rim is. In some scenes it even looks like each section of rim is a different color. Mostly, though, at least to my stanky old wizzard(sic) eyes, that "Colonial Cream" comes the closest in most of the images (and episode scenes). I think the big question is what the base color is. There are a few images in the Reference Section showing the white (what looks like) gel coat where large bits of the paint has literally peeled off like apple skins. So what did they put on the rim for the base coat? (And as easily as that paint looks like it peeled off, I don't think they used any primer before the base coat.)

Well, have I helped, or hindered? :P ;) :D

Dino.
"What's wrong with being childish?! I like being childish." -3rd Doctor, "Terror of the Autons"

kiwidoc

Good on you, the truth is probably always somewhere in-between with any paint finish getting updated, washed in new coats, smoked up from FX, discoloured from use and showing up differently in every type of light.  I thoroughly agree with going with cream and colouring in a bit more of a yellowy finish in spots or if you feel it needs it.   I'm till jealous of you having access to the proper stuff to do it with too  :)

But major kudos to Dino (as usual) for posting a great range of reference info.  :)

galacticprobe

Sep 20, 2014, 06:24 am #18 Last Edit: Sep 20, 2014, 06:27 am by galacticprobe
You guys might make me green with ENVY! by having room and resources to build full-scale replicas of this beauty (or should I say "greener" since my skin is naturally a tad green already?), but at times, you do make me blush to a lovely shade of hot pink. ;)

You're more than welcome, Glen!

Dino.
"What's wrong with being childish?! I like being childish." -3rd Doctor, "Terror of the Autons"

superrichi1a

KiwiDoc, you have a very good point there! The sonic screwdriver B prop actually went from bright white, to grubby grey, to light blue just because people kept repairing it not knowing what paint to use! In actual fact during it's last appearance someone had clearly just gone "**** it" because they lathered a bright blue Dulux emulsion paint straight on.... It boggles the mind how hard it can be to use the right paint, it really does! ;)
And Dino, you've certainly deconstructed it magnificently there, right you are sir, I think given that evidence it's pretty much certain we're looking at the Cream! I have a growing suspicion you're actually the regenerated form of the whole reference section ;)

Ever worked hard on a piece, stepped back and just thought "it's just not good enough"? I've been blitzing this rim recently, my current build time is fast running out and I wanted to get the console structure sorted by then but I've had to face the conclusion that I just can't use this rim section :-\ I don't have a lot of tools to work with here, corded drill and old jigsaw, and I don't have anything like an engineering or skilled background so I've always just done the best I can. The first rim section I made was good, I think, a few holes, nothing major, but the rest have got progressively worse. Despite each piece being a clone of a master former, all my other rims have a large overhang, wonky recesses and huge, gaping holes. I really hadn't assessed them properly until now. And eerr... I have no idea how to fix it... 4 full days wasted it seems. Hmmmm, I'm going to have to go and have a major rethink.
On the upside, my new police box signs turned up, yay! Can't face going through all that again quite yet with the door sign though :P
Isn't it how ironic that we have to think of solutions out of the box, in order to build our boxes a lot of the time?

galacticprobe

Sep 21, 2014, 04:59 am #20 Last Edit: Sep 21, 2014, 05:11 am by galacticprobe
Quote from: superrichi1a on Sep 20, 2014, 09:02 pm
And Dino, you've certainly deconstructed it magnificently there,..

What?! AAAHH! :o I thought I was supposed to be helping to construct things! Deconstruction? (I prefer "reverse engineering" - sort of goes with the territory, what with the whole "Area 51" and Torchwood Institute, etc. ;) ;D

Quote from: superrichi1a on Sep 20, 2014, 09:02 pm
...right you are sir, I think given that evidence it's pretty much certain we're looking at the Cream!

I think so. At least that's how it looks to me.

Quote from: superrichi1a on Sep 20, 2014, 09:02 pm
I have a growing suspicion you're actually the regenerated form of the whole reference section ;)

Well...? ??? Not sure how to respond to that one! :D Let's just say that I've been trying to figure out the intricacies of this curvy creation, and as I find out more and more (and yet, even more) about her I'm just adding to the references. (I should find a name tag that says "THE DOCTOR here to help" and wear it while I'm logged in! ;D ;D ;D)

Quote from: superrichi1a on Sep 20, 2014, 09:02 pm
Ever worked hard on a piece, stepped back and just thought "it's just not good enough"?

Remember, you are your own worst critic. I've done things that people thought were great, yet I didn't think they were god enough. So go easy on yourself, and remember; that curved rim isn't the easiest thing to replicate!

Quote from: superrichi1a on Sep 20, 2014, 09:02 pm
I don't have a lot of tools to work with here, corded drill and old jigsaw, and I don't have anything like an engineering or skilled background so I've always just done the best I can.

And that's all anyone can ask of themselves: do your best. It will all work out. As for tools, you might consider getting one of those "sheet rock knives", and maybe a small file. They would be good for helping to shape the "dimples" in the rim. (Them, and maybe some filler putty, or something like Bondo to help smooth some edges.)

Quote from: superrichi1a on Sep 20, 2014, 09:02 pm
The first rim section I made was good, I think, a few holes, nothing major, but the rest have got progressively worse. Despite each piece being a clone of a master former, all my other rims have a large overhang, wonky recesses and huge, gaping holes. ... I have no idea how to fix it... 4 full days wasted it seems.

Before you go taking things so hard, can you post a photo of the troublesome rim sections? Another set of eyes (and brain cells) might be able to look at them and say 'Hey, try this and it should work'. It couldn't hurt.

Quote from: superrichi1a on Sep 20, 2014, 09:02 pm
Hmmmm, I'm going to have to go and have a major rethink.

As I mentioned, post some photos and let us lend some brain cells to that effort. (I have only one running at the moment, but you're welcome to it. :D)

Quote from: superrichi1a on Sep 20, 2014, 09:02 pm
On the upside, my new police box signs turned up, yay! Can't face going through all that again quite yet with the door sign though :P

I can't wait to see those in place! And the door sign shouldn't be too bad... at least you don't need a ladder for that one.

(I hope some of this brought a smile to your face. :))

Dino.
"What's wrong with being childish?! I like being childish." -3rd Doctor, "Terror of the Autons"

kiwidoc

Quote from: superrichi1a on Sep 20, 2014, 09:02 pm


Ever worked hard on a piece, stepped back and just thought "it's just not good enough"?

ALL... THE... TIME!   Quite often I go back and have a do-over but it can take a bit of time to work up to tackling it again.  That's the main reason I've been at my console for 20 months - sometimes I've just needed time to be able to face certain demons again...

I bet you're being hard on yourself though, feel free to share here and be told how well you've actually done...   :)

superrichi1a

Sep 21, 2014, 03:30 pm #22 Last Edit: Sep 21, 2014, 10:58 pm by superrichi1a
Thanks guys, some really kind comments there :D I was complimenting you, Dino, saying without your research this build, and I imagine every build of this sort, would not be possible :)

Well here goes:

photo 4.JPG  photo 5.JPG

Pretty much all the rim segments save the first are like this, with a large overhang, gaps and some warping. It's not a build breaking issue to be sure, and by layering up a goodly amount of body filler after anchoring it all with fibreless on the inside I reckon it can be hidden, but it'll never have that one-piece sealed look of the real thing. I was looking back at yours KiwiDoc and I cannot praise the job you did on it enough now I understand what making one entails! MD's looks startlingly good, too, but there aren't as many in-construction pictures of that ;)
My father, who is becoming more and more of a lifesaver on this console, came by earlier and took one look at the worst segment and declared he could do something with it, and right now I can see outside of the window that he's managing to make it more flush than I could do, so I guess we know he still wears the trousers in this family ::)
The recesses I'm less worried about, I'd like them to be better but they won't bother me too much in future, although, having done a dry fit test, I've discovered each segment will only have 15 of them on, rather than the 20 I was aiming for. Each segment originally only has 18 recesses due to the fact that I thought making them slightly bigger seemed to fit reference material I had a bit better, so I had less space. But part of each one gets hidden behind a rib so even less of those are seen. Again, doesn't worry me, I think it looks "about right" and I still prefer the look of the bigger recesses, what's the use of a good build if you can't make it slightly your own? ;)

Anyway, dry run with the nearly complete rim:

photo 1.JPG   photo 2.JPG   photo 3.JPG

Looks so much more substantial with a rim in! I'm pretty happy with the overall shape and proportions of the thing as-yet, I think that part is just as much about how you perceive the console as to how it actually is, so how accurate it actually is, and how much it deviated from that first traced rib profile I made I'm not sure. You can also see the anchor ring I made up top there, this will have each rib bolted to it and then the conical scanner er... thingy... will be fixed around it and the top of each console panel fixed below ;D I've cut down each rib to fit and finished installing all the crossbars, as well as widening out the slot for the rim with the final profile in mind - it was a tad too short and curvy last time!

Thanks :)
Isn't it how ironic that we have to think of solutions out of the box, in order to build our boxes a lot of the time?

davidnagel

Wow!

Your own complaints aside, thats just wow :)
Kind Regards,

David

www.spiffinglyniceguy.co.uk

superrichi1a

Haha thank you David! :)

In design it's quite something to look at, I think the 2005 console as a whole is a very impressive looking beast because it looks so natural, it's just sort of there, as if it's just popped up like a dancing Groot, rather than built, part of the structure of the area, and the heart of it. When I first saw the real thing back in 2011 it was such an awe inspiring moment, even among other Who props that console stood out, the 5 Doctors looks dwarfed by comparison! (Although strictly speaking it's bigger and the 2005 did have the advantage of a partial console room around it).
If I can even capture a bit of that wow factor I'm happy! :D
Isn't it how ironic that we have to think of solutions out of the box, in order to build our boxes a lot of the time?

kiwidoc

Looks great all put together!  Makes it kind of extra real though, doesn't it - like the "where am I putting this???~!!" kind of real...

The rim segments were awful, I think I spent several months on just that area and went back to refine it several times (before finally cutting my 6" rim into pieces,  and having to rebuild several sections and extend others... so, that plan didn't work!) so given that you've been building for a week, your progress is fantastic, I'm gobsmacked.  And your basic frame of buttresses looks terrific - much more regular and lined up than mine!

superrichi1a

Thank you KiwiDoc!
Your rim is truly an awe-inspiring piece, those months were certainly well worth it! When I planned the build I knew the rim would by the area I was going to really hate building, so my plan was to get it out of the way with!
Thanks for saying that about the pace, too! I'm totally free at the moment, which is why I've had so much spare time to work on it. As it happens tomorrow is the last full day of building I have in two weeks (though I'm sure I'll try and do some evening work) so I won't be able to keep it up unfortunately, then of course winter sets in and everything becomes difficult :/ (But Santa comes, I have it on good authority the 9th Doctor will not have to step in this year, and we all get to over eat, Wa-hey!). My "big idea" was to get the main structure done by this week, so bolt it together tomorrow and I'm sorted, keep working at it when I can, but then once the cole sets in start working at all the controls and smaller jobs that I can do inside, before adding it all up in April next year, when I've got another 2 months with a lot of spare time.
My main worry is, as you say, storage! Where the **** am I going to keep the thing?! I'll probably use the old playhouse out back, it's got about a million old footballs in right now so I may have to have a cull :p
Isn't it how ironic that we have to think of solutions out of the box, in order to build our boxes a lot of the time?

museumdave

Wow you are rocketing along!

This build is great the scale looks really good and you are making such quick head way.   Love it

Keep it up

Cheers

M.D.
"I could retire and be the curator of this place,"  the 11th doctor or maybe the 12th?

superrichi1a

Thanks MD! Was reading how you wished you could have yours in a geodome the other day, that would be fantastic, I'd love to do that myself! Alas those things are damn expensive, but I guess that's what Scarfwearer must have thought several years before he materialised a full console room inside his house, so anything must be possible ;)
Isn't it how ironic that we have to think of solutions out of the box, in order to build our boxes a lot of the time?

galacticprobe

Sep 22, 2014, 04:44 am #29 Last Edit: Sep 22, 2014, 05:19 am by galacticprobe
Wow! What else is there for me to say? Everyone's already said it. (Still, you know me by now; I'll try to find something!)

Quote from: superrichi1a on Sep 21, 2014, 03:30 pm
I was complimenting you, Dino, saying without your research this build, and I imagine every build of this sort, would not be possible :)

I know that! Didn't you notice the 'winky' and big Cheesy smileys after my comment? Me, Grimlock, make joke. (Now, everyone, please laugh at that; and just for reference, I've been using the "Me, Grimlock..." phrase on and off since the mid 1980s.)

Quote from: superrichi1a on Sep 21, 2014, 03:30 pm
Pretty much all the rim segments save the first are like this, with a large overhang, gaps and some warping...
My father, who is becoming more and more of a lifesaver on this console, came by earlier and took one look at the worst segment and declared he could do something with it, and right now I can see outside of the window that he's managing to make it more flush than I could do, so I guess we know he still wears the trousers in this family ::)

Sounds like you've got some great help there. I had some ideas, but it sounds like your dad's got this well in hand, and his ideas are most likely better than mine would have been.

Quote from: superrichi1a on Sep 21, 2014, 03:30 pm
The recesses I'm less worried about, I'd like them to be better but they won't bother me too much in future... I think it looks "about right" and I still prefer the look of the bigger recesses, what's the use of a good build if you can't make it slightly your own? ;)

I couldn't have said it better, myself! (Come to think of it, I have mentioned that in a few Build Diaries, both TARDISes and consoles, and probably other props as well.) If any of those Rivet Counters come around and criticize the number or size of the "dimples", do the "RIVET COUNTER!" pointing thing, and then say "She's my Lady and I like her just the way she is!"

Quote from: superrichi1a on Sep 21, 2014, 03:30 pm
Anyway, dry run with the nearly complete rim:

Looks so much more substantial with a rim in! I'm pretty happy with the overall shape and proportions of the thing as-yet,..

As well you should be! Those curves are so smooth. Her lines flow very nicely. (Marilyn Monroe has nothing on her!)

Quote from: superrichi1a on Sep 21, 2014, 03:30 pm
You can also see the anchor ring I made up top there, this will have each rib bolted to it and then the conical scanner er... thingy... will be fixed around it and the top of each console panel fixed below ;D

That part looks smurfy (and I've been using that one since 1982). You really captured the look there. (And I don't know what to call that conical - thingy - either. How does the "Monitor-Central Dials Stack" sound?) It's got the monitor on it, as well as a stack of brass "dials" - or more proper, graticules - on it; but "Dials" is easier to say - and type - than "graticules".

Quote from: superrichi1a on Sep 21, 2014, 03:30 pm
I've cut down each rib to fit and finished installing all the crossbars, as well as widening out the slot for the rim with the final profile in mind - it was a tad too short and curvy last time!

Sounds like what they did with the original prop as well, sometime between Eccleston's start and Tennant's finish. You can see the difference in some of the reference images. Possibly done when they moved studios?

Anyway, fantastic job so far. And of course to finish this post off - mildly...

Envy(tiny).jpg

Dino.
"What's wrong with being childish?! I like being childish." -3rd Doctor, "Terror of the Autons"