Mar 01, 2021, 09:58 am

News:

New, New TardisBuilders!


Reference Pictures: Mk I Console (1963)

Started by Scarfwearer, Aug 22, 2009, 12:40 pm

Previous topic - Next topic

kert gantry

Sep 06, 2017, 09:10 pm #75 Last Edit: Sep 19, 2017, 07:57 pm by kert gantry
OK, after a good deal of ferreting around online and elsewhere, here are John Cura's telesnaps of the TARDIS interior scenes from Marco Polo.

First is episode three, Five Hundred Eyes. Here's the full contact sheet, second row covers the scene of condensation dripping down in the control room. This is possibly the most minimal TARDIS scene ever - a close-up of Bill in the dark! Was there a shot of water on the walls which Cura missed? Hard to be absolutely certain at this stage but I have to say I doubt it.

     
MarcoPolotelesnapsheetpokpokp.JPG


MarcoPolo4telesnappklkl.png


Next up is the only image we have of the control room from episode five, Rider From Shang-Tu, as our heroes make an abortive attempt to escape. Again, it looks as though things were kept pretty simple; console, wall and lighting tower. Presumably the subdued lighting is to suggest the TARDIS still 'powering up' after repair. Don't know what that framework thing is visible through the roundels. Ideas anyone?


MarcoPolo1telesnapfkfkfkkvjj.png


Finally, the very last shot from Assassin at Peking, with a starfield superimposed over the Doctor and friends at the console. No sign of any walls; looks like a black backcloth instead. A lovely, expressionistic image ending a visually gorgeous story!

MarcoPolo5telesnaptifkeoook.png


Of course it's possible there was more of the TARDIS set to be seen than Cura captured here, but I think that's doubtful. The story's director Waris Hussein has never been shy of voicing his dislike of Brachacki's design, having found it impractical to work with from the off. Polo had many elaborate sets and space at Lime Grove Studio D would have been even tighter than usual. As far as I know, there are no shots of the TARDIS interior among the copious amounts of photos taken during rehearsals. Maybe this too was due to the 'pared down' nature of the control room during the shoot?


(Edited to correct episode title)

galacticprobe

Sep 07, 2017, 03:52 am #76 Last Edit: Sep 07, 2017, 04:03 am by galacticprobe
Quote from: kert gantry on Sep 06, 2017, 09:10 pm
...it looks as though things were kept pretty simple; console, wall and lighting tower. ... Don't know what that framework thing is visible through the roundels. Ideas anyone?


If they were keeping things simple for this story, and keeping the console room light at a minimum to show a low power feeling, then it's possible the studio lighting surrounding the set is shining against the backs of the console room walls and not being overpowered by the normal set lighting.

So, if I were to hazard a guess, I'd say that was the shadow from some sort of studio scaffolding or maybe supporting framework for the console room wall falling on the backs of the roundels. After all, for the most part we never really saw those "stepped" roundels lit from behind. I know Tony will correct me if I'm wrong, but with what color publicity photos we have of the room with those roundels, we can see they were white, and any semblance of light "emitting" from them was probably due to studio lighting reflecting off of their front side, which is why they never seemed to be brightly lit as they would be in the post-Troughton years. Even when they replaced these roundels with the flat, frosted(?) perspex sheet in the later Hartnell years, they were never really seen backlit.

Dino.
"What's wrong with being childish?! I like being childish." -3rd Doctor, "Terror of the Autons"

TrixieTiger1995

Thanks for the tele-snaps, kert! Look like I have to completely rearrange my Marco interior now since the fault locator light box or what it is called. and has a 3D wall too. And at the back, sneak in the black background and some interior doors.
TrixieTiger1995, the infrequent builder and frequent forumer.

jontennant

Apparently there is only one colour reference photo for the colour of the console, but I found this.[attachid]hart_zpsbc3ab4e0.jpg[/attach][attachid]hart_zpsbc3ab4e0.jpg[/attach]27e7b941685e96b6d146f1f12ec370f2.jpg
Does it shed any light?
Jontennant -  'The Other Doctor'

jontennant

Thus is another photo from earlier in the thread, but I noticed that the radiation meter in the corner has had the interior pushed down.WarGames-PublicityPhoto-Color.jpg
Jontennant -  'The Other Doctor'

kert gantry

That picture of Bill is one of a handful taken on the TARDIS set during Galaxy Four. You'll find the rest earlier on in this thread. Nice, aren't they?  :)

One thing I hadn't noticed before these turned up. Those look like the original bucket roundels but with the backs cut out. Black gauze has been cut into circles and stuck over what's left of them.

tony farrell

Sep 09, 2017, 12:33 pm #81 Last Edit: Sep 09, 2017, 12:35 pm by Tony Farrell
Quote from: kert gantry on Sep 09, 2017, 09:26 am
One thing I hadn't noticed before these turned up. Those look like the original bucket roundels but with the backs cut out. Black gauze has been cut into circles and stuck over what's left of them.


The original 'stepped' roundel backings were supplied by a firm called Ackland Snow. They were made out of a thin vacuum-formed PVc. Ten 'spare' roundel backings were supplied.

As early as the first Dalek story some of the PVc mouldings were damaged and by the time of The Dalek Invasion of Earth, this damage had spread (look at the "one day I shall come back" speech at the end of this story). The damaged roundels on the Tardis' main doors were replaced with the 'spares' by the time of The Web Planet but no-one bothered to trim their flanges to the same diameter as the remaining originals (the bottom one is the original):

Screenshot 2017-09-09 12.57.32.png

By the time we get to "The Chase", the supply of spare roundels seems to have been exhausted, and the decision was taken to replace the roundels on the main doors and surrounding wall with the flat-backed versions (one main wall had its roundels similarly replaced but not the other). The 'second' main wall retained the original roundel mouldings and can be seen in "The Time Meddler".

The_Chase_02.jpg
the time meddler 7.jpg

As regards the materials from which the new (flat) roundels were made, if memory serves, they were made from a layer of translucent grey plastic which was backed with a disc; when back-lit, the rear disc was designed to mimic the appearance of the original mouldings i.e., to create the illusion of a stepped section.

Certainly, the replacement roundels were fairly durable and last all the way through the Troughton era and up to The Curse of Peladon in the mid-Pertwee period:

axos tardis.jpg
axos tardis3.png

LVhse.jpg

(One of the replacement roundels can be seen behind Katy Manning's head at the top of the Tardis' door.) As can be seen when not back-lit, the replacement roundels appear to be a dark grey; when back-lit (as in the photo from "The Chase", they take on a translucent appearance which closely matches the original stepped mouldings).

As a foot note, when the Tardis' walls were reduced in height for "Power of the Daleks", one wall appears to have had all the roundel mouldings replaced with a single layer of Perspex (i.e., no outer backing disc):

rear wall.jpg

(This - literally behind the scenes - photo can be positively identified as "The Power of the Daleks" because of the production code on the notice board i.e., 2315-8520 and also because of the tops of the walls being cut off.)

This same wall can be seen behind Roger Delgado in the pictures from The Claws of Axos.

Due to their durability, I think - rather than gauze - the replacement flat roundels were made from a translucent grey-blue Perspex in much the same way as the ones made for "The Three Doctors" Tardis set which also appear to be a dark grey when not back-lit:

console-planet-daleks-2.jpgconsole-planet-daleks-3.jpg

T

Volpone

I hadn't realized that the "transporter room" wall was still around as late as "The Three Doctors."  I just thought by that point it was all roundels (totally for "The Time Monster," when even the viewscreen went away for a bit) and they'd gotten rid of things like the fault locator and other equipment outside of the console.  Neat.   
"My dear Litefoot, I've got a lantern and a pair of waders, and possibly the most fearsome piece of hand artillery in all England. What could possibly go wrong?"
-The Doctor.

fivefingeredstyre

Sep 09, 2017, 09:38 pm #83 Last Edit: Sep 10, 2017, 03:03 pm by fivefingeredstyre
Quote from: Tony Farrell on Sep 09, 2017, 12:33 pmDue to their durability, I think - rather than gauze - the replacement flat roundels were made from a translucent grey-blue Perspex in much the same way as the ones made for "The Three Doctors" Tardis set which also appear to be a dark grey when not back-lit:

console-planet-daleks-2.jpgconsole-planet-daleks-3.jpg
this is most evident during the transition, mid episode 1 of Planet of the Daleks when the walls go from being back lit during the scenes filmed as part of the Frontier in Space recap, to the subsequent TARDIS interior scenes where the same roundel walls are the flat grey colour.

galacticprobe

Sep 10, 2017, 04:39 am #84 Last Edit: Sep 10, 2017, 04:47 am by galacticprobe
Tony, in the two images you posted above (with Jon Pertwee and Roger Delgago together, and below that with the main TARDIS doors to Jon Pertwee's back as he's at the console), those original roundels look like their edges, in several places on most of those roundels, are either curled away from the inner "drum" of the wall opening, or it's "puckered" around the edges.

Do you know if that could be from the new covering part of the roundels being stuffed inside the opening so the "leftover" part of the original roundel (the part not cut away) would be behind it? And if that material was stuffed inside the wall opening like that, would it have been a thin plastic-like material, or could it have been a fabric-like material (maybe not gauze, but more like bed linen cotton which would be sheer enough to see through, and could have come in a pale grey-ish color)?

Dino.
"What's wrong with being childish?! I like being childish." -3rd Doctor, "Terror of the Autons"

tony farrell

Sep 10, 2017, 10:15 am #85 Last Edit: Sep 11, 2017, 10:36 am by Tony Farrell
Quote from: galacticprobe on Sep 10, 2017, 04:39 am
Tony, those original roundels look like their edges, in several places on most of those roundels, are either curled away from the inner "drum" of the wall opening, or it's "puckered" around the edges.

My point here Dino is that the roundels we see in use from "The Chase" onwards aren't the originals but rather replacements (because the supply of 'spares' made to the original design had been exhausted). Thus, the roundel mouldings on the main entrance wall and one of the other walls were replaced. (The roundels on the remaining wall weren't replaced until after "The Time Meddler" and probably just before the recording of "Power of the Daleks" i.e., because this wall wasn't used that often.)

Quote from: galacticprobe on Sep 10, 2017, 04:39 am
Do you know if that could be from the new covering part of the roundels being stuffed inside the opening so the "leftover" part of the original roundel (the part not cut away) would be behind it? And if that material was stuffed inside the wall opening like that, would it have been a thin plastic-like material, or could it have been a fabric-like material (maybe not gauze, but more like bed linen cotton which would be sheer enough to see through, and could have come in a pale grey-ish color)?


The curling/puckering you point out is surely a characteristic of thin plastic which - as we know - over time becomes distorted/becomes curled/becomes brittle due to UV degradation.

As regards the replacement roundels being stuffed inside the openings (being mounted on the supposed remains of the original Brachacki mouldings), well, this isn't supported by the photographic evidence.

The rear of the wall shown in the photo from Power of the Daleks  - see my last post - clearly shows that the plastic discs were mounted on the rear of the wall. Furthermore, these photos from "Colony in Space" show that the discs (even those with the remaining outer rings) were also mounted on the rear of the wall panels - we can even see the nail/screw heads used to secure them:

col2.jpgcol7.jpgcol8.jpgcol5.jpg

Furthermore, we can also see the screw/nail holes in the wooden wall where the original Brachacki mouldings have been removed and replaced with slightly smaller diameter plastic discs. Even the mouldings which still have the outer rings are smaller in diameter than the original stepped mouldings. So, if the 'collars' of the original mouldings were somehow retained, not only were their middles removed, their outer flanges were also trimmed-down in size. Given the number of mouldings, the suggestion that their outer rings were retained and trimmed twice - once to remove their middles and then again to reduce their diameters -  strikes me as being a lot of hard work!

Lastly, we know that the original Brachacki roundel mouldings were made of thin plastic/PVc (supplied by Ackland Snow). We also know that the roundel backings fitted for "The Three Doctors" refurbishment of the original Tardis set were also thin plastic/PVc (Cobex - supplied by Bakelite Xylonite Limited - now BXL Plastics). So if the original mouldings were plastic and the final type of roundels fitted in the original Tardis set were plastic, why would the 'middle' set of roundel backings (i.e., the late Hartnell/Troughton ones) suddenly be made out of cloth?

To my mind to start with plastic roundel backings, then to go to cloth only then to revert back to plastic backings simply doesn't make sense and isn't supported by the photographic evidence.  :)

T

(Edited - one sentence had the word 'would' typed twice in error.)

kert gantry

Sep 10, 2017, 09:52 pm #86 Last Edit: Sep 10, 2017, 11:55 pm by kert gantry
Plastic, not gauze. Thanks for the detailed and persuasive replies, Tony. And more knockout pictures!

What's going on with that single dark roundel on the back of the Power of the Daleks wall?

Also, just wondering. During your ongoing researches, have you found anything that could help back up or demolish my pet theory about the photographic blowup walls being reprinted after 1965?



.

galacticprobe

Sep 11, 2017, 02:58 am #87 Last Edit: Sep 11, 2017, 03:13 am by galacticprobe
Quote from: kert gantry on Sep 10, 2017, 09:52 pm
Plastic, not gauze. Thanks for the detailed and persuasive replies, Tony. And more knockout pictures!

Tony, kert gantry took the words right out of my mouth.

Quote from: Tony Farrell on Sep 10, 2017, 10:15 am
So if the original mouldings were plastic and the final type of roundels fitted in the original Tardis set were plastic, why would the would the 'middle' set of roundel backings (i.e., the late Hartnell/Troughton ones) suddenly be made out of cloth?

To my mind to start with plastic roundel backings, then to go to cloth only then to revert back to plastic backings simply doesn't make sense and isn't supported by the photographic evidence.  :)

Very true. The only reason I asked about a linen-type of cloth being used on those roundels was because of kert's comment about the use of black gauze on them:
Quote from: kert gantry on Sep 09, 2017, 09:26 am
Those look like the original bucket roundels but with the backs cut out. Black gauze has been cut into circles and stuck over what's left of them.

I'd wondered if a bed linen-type fabric would have been more 'solid-looking' than gauze (yet still translucent) when covering over the "original bucket roundels" if that had been the case, which you've explained extremely well wasn't the case.

Dino.
"What's wrong with being childish?! I like being childish." -3rd Doctor, "Terror of the Autons"

tony farrell

Sep 11, 2017, 11:04 am #88 Last Edit: Sep 11, 2017, 12:02 pm by Tony Farrell
Quote from: kert gantry on Sep 10, 2017, 09:52 pm
Plastic, not gauze. Thanks for the detailed and persuasive replies, Tony. And more knockout pictures!

Thanks Thomas (and thank you Dino); I knows my Brachacki, Gleeson and Newbery Tardis sets and I aim to please!  :)

Quote from: kert gantry on Sep 10, 2017, 09:52 pm
What's going on with that single dark roundel on the back of the Power of the Daleks wall?


The roundel you refer to is in shadow because the wooden chest that Pat Troughton's Doctor rummaged through is on the other side of the wall - you can just see its corners casting a shadow on the adjoining roundels:

rear wall chest casting shadow.jpg

(I think the whole roundel backing appears darker than the others because the chest is also preventing the light from the studio lights 'bouncing back up' from the bottom of the roundel recess as well.)

Quote from: kert gantry on Sep 10, 2017, 09:52 pm
Also, just wondering. During your ongoing researches, have you found anything that could help back up or demolish my pet theory about the photographic blowup walls being reprinted after 1965?


I agree completely with you on this point for two reasons: Firstly, fairly early on at least one of the photo blow-up walls became damaged along its bottom edge. Possibly as in an effort to hide the damage, at least one PBU was - more-or-less consistently - hung upside down from the start of Season Two:  

The_Chase (1a).jpg

Secondly, 1965 effectively marks the start of 625 line transmission in the UK: The BBC's Lime Grove Studio 405 line cameras were replaced early in 1965 with 625-line EMI 203 Image Orthicon cameras whilst Studio H in the same building became the home for the BBC's trials of colour television from late 1964 onwards (colour transmission needed 625 lines to carry the additional information) - source http://www.tvstudiohistory.co.uk .

So, given the fact that at least one PBU was damaged - and this was likely to be more obvious in 625 lines - I think it was highly probable that the production team took the decision to replace all three PBUs in 1965. (This may also be the reason that the 3D walls were repainted off-white round about this time rather than the pale green they were previously.)

I think I'm correct in saying that the replacement PBUs were actually reproduced at a slightly larger scale; though the panels themselves remained twelve feet by ten feet, the actual photographic roundels 'grew' by an inch in diameter from 24" to 25" i.e., so that they were now the same size as the three dimensional ones.

T

darren79

Re: Marco Polo - This shot sometimes shows up. If it's a mock up then it's a really good one and I can't tell where the shots would come from.

Anyone know if it's a true cropped telesnap or not?

I think it might have been in the DVD abridged reconstruction on The Edge of Destruction DVD.

PDVD_019.jpg~original.jpeg