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Five Doctors Interior Wall Columns

Started by transmatdalek, May 05, 2009, 05:53 am

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transmatdalek

May 05, 2009, 05:53 am Last Edit: Jun 18, 2010, 01:24 pm by Scarfwearer
Does anyone know what angle the short sides of the wall columns are at?

I'd probably say the cross section would be trapezoidal in shape.
Who's the resident TARDIS interior expert here?  ;D

Teletran

Aug 28, 2009, 01:20 pm #1 Last Edit: Jan 25, 2010, 06:21 am by scarfwearer
I found a rare view of the panel on the other side of the door:

doctorwho518.th.png

This is from Destiny of the daleks in season 17 which used basically the same console room layout as season15, I think they made some changes in season 18 before the major redesign in 5 doctors. Note that this panel has three parallel rows of roundels and I strongly suspect that it is a holdover from the S-14 set which has been repainted and used whenever an extra panel is needed. Here it is again:

doctorwho440.th.png


If this follows the same rules as the diagonally staggered panels it would only be only slightly longer than the scanner panel allowing a somewhat more regular room shape. Here's a quick plan I whipped up, the outer walls are from my console room model.

plan05.jpg

I didn't include the Columns because I don't know how big they are.
Here's a picture from the recording of 'Stone of Blood' (S-16) showing 'The Forth Wall', I think we can assume that the painted area of floor represents the boundary of what was expected to be seen onscreen.

tomtop01.jpg


(http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/1360/omni02g.jpg)

Rassilons Rod

May 05, 2009, 07:48 am #2 Last Edit: Jun 18, 2010, 01:16 pm by scarfwearer
Thats something I've always wanted to know too :)

If we can't figure it out in here (btw as its a trapezoid I'd take 3 measurements, the front width and the (imaginary) back width and the distance between the 2) then I'll as Rob Semenoff over at Who 3D what sizes he used :)

-Marc

In the cities in the streets there's a tension you can feel,
The breaking strain is fast approaching, guns and riots.
Politicians gamble and lie to save their skins,
And the press get fed the scapegoats,
Public Enema Number One.

transmatdalek

May 05, 2009, 10:26 am #3 Last Edit: Jun 18, 2010, 01:16 pm by scarfwearer
Quote from: rassilonsrod board=discussion thread=1144 post=20513 time=1241509739Thats something I've always wanted to know too :)

If we can't figure it out in here (btw as its a trapezoid I'd take 3 measurements, the front width and the (imaginary) back width and the distance between the 2) then I'll as Rob Semenoff over at Who 3D what sizes he used :)

-Marc



Is it possible to work it out using screenshots? I'm certainly no expert in ...what's that term for using screenshots to determine angles etc? interpolation?

Scarfwearer

May 05, 2009, 02:40 pm #4 Last Edit: Jun 18, 2010, 01:17 pm by scarfwearer
Quote from: transmatdalek board=discussion thread=1144 post=20512 time=1241502832Does anyone know what angle the short sides of the wall columns are at?

I'd probably say the cross section would be trapezoidal in shape.
Who's the resident TARDIS interior expert here?  ;D

Well I wouldn't claim to be a TARDIS interior expert, but I can do some trigonometry!

* The widths of the front and back of the column are in the ratio 58:86 (measured off a photo taken at some distance).
* There are 7 trims on the front face and 3 down the side, so assuming they're the same trims (which is a dodgy assumption), the side will be 25 units long. The triangle height at the back will be (86-58)/2 = 14 units.
* sin-1(14/25) is pretty close to 35°, so that's my best guess at the angle. Add 90° to get 125&deg for the whole obtuse angle if you like.

But this is only a guestimate.

Crispin

transmatdalek

May 05, 2009, 02:46 pm #5 Last Edit: Jun 18, 2010, 01:17 pm by scarfwearer
Quote from: scarfwearer board=discussion thread=1144 post=20523 time=1241534406
Well I wouldn't claim to be a TARDIS interior expert, but I can do some trigonometry!

* The widths of the front and back of the column are in the ratio 58:86 (measured off a photo taken at some distance).
* There are 7 trims on the front face and 3 down the side, so assuming they're the same trims (which is a dodgy assumption), the side will be 25 units long. The triangle height at the back will be (86-58)/2 = 14 units.
* sin-1(14/25) is pretty close to 35°, so that's my best guess at the angle. Add 90° to get 125&deg for the whole obtuse angle if you like.

But this is only a guestimate.

Crispin


Scarfwearer, my dear fellow! Sheer Ingenuity!
But you know, if the behind of the column was flat, how would that be compatiable, with say, the corner of the hexagon of the room? Unless there was extra filler material behind the flat surface of the column to fill in the space of the hexagon? ???

Scarfwearer

May 05, 2009, 04:15 pm #6 Last Edit: Jun 18, 2010, 01:17 pm by scarfwearer
Quote from: transmatdalek board=discussion thread=1144 post=20524 time=1241534786

Scarfwearer, my dear fellow! Sheer Ingenuity!
But you know, if the behind of the column was flat, how would that be compatiable, with say, the corner of the hexagon of the room? Unless there was extra filler material behind the flat surface of the column to fill in the space of the hexagon? ???

Perhaps the room is not hexagonal...

Crispin

DoctorWho8

May 05, 2009, 06:06 pm #7 Last Edit: Jun 18, 2010, 01:24 pm by Scarfwearer
Here's my overhead view of how I think the console room shape would be if it was a 360º set (like the original Hartnell one was).  It's not to scale, but could help find some angles.
consoleroom.jpg
Bill Rudloff

Rassilons Rod

May 05, 2009, 07:49 pm #8 Last Edit: Jun 18, 2010, 01:18 pm by scarfwearer
Quote from: scarfwearer board=discussion thread=1144 post=20527 time=1241540135
Perhaps the room is not hexagonal...

Crispin


Definitely not. Even if we assume the screen wall to be the same as the other roundel walls AND the exterior doors, the Interior door wall is absolutely smaller...
In the cities in the streets there's a tension you can feel,
The breaking strain is fast approaching, guns and riots.
Politicians gamble and lie to save their skins,
And the press get fed the scapegoats,
Public Enema Number One.

DoctorWho8

May 05, 2009, 11:33 pm #9 Last Edit: Jun 18, 2010, 01:18 pm by scarfwearer
Quote from: rassilonsrod board=discussion thread=1144 post=20540 time=1241552950

Definitely not. Even if we assume the screen wall to be the same as the other roundel walls AND the exterior doors, the Interior door wall is absolutely smaller...


If you look at my illustration, I based it off an octagon.  I think it would be the best shape for the console room to be.
Bill Rudloff

transmatdalek

May 06, 2009, 04:47 am #10 Last Edit: Jun 18, 2010, 01:18 pm by scarfwearer
Quote from: doctorwho8 board=discussion thread=1144 post=20536 time=1241546818Here's my overhead view of how I think the console room shape would be if it was a 360º set (like the original Hartnell one was).  It's not to scale, but could help find some angles.
consoleroom.jpg
Bill Rudloff


That's a good model.
So we are all agreed it's an irregular octagon?

Presumably the original studio plan omitted the three roundel walls to the left of the main doors.
So the general layout is
1 X long main door wall
5 X roundel walls
1 X Scanner wall
1X interior wall

Assuming the 5 X roundel walls are the same length, can we also assume the scanner wall is the same length as well?


Dear oh dear, a question for the experts indeed.

Scarfwearer

May 06, 2009, 12:50 pm #11 Last Edit: Jun 18, 2010, 01:18 pm by scarfwearer
Quote from: transmatdalek board=discussion thread=1144 post=20545 time=1241585273
So we are all agreed it's an irregular octagon?

Well, clearly you can assume whatever you like about the area that was not part of the existing sets. Assuming that it's 3 panels of roundels would be conservative and in keeping: if there was anything particularly interesting there you could imagine they would have shown it eventually.
Quote from: transmatdalek board=discussion thread=1144 post=20545 time=1241585273
Presumably the original studio plan omitted the three roundel walls to the left of the main doors.
So the general layout is
1 X long main door wall
5 X roundel walls
1 X Scanner wall
1X interior wall

Assuming the 5 X roundel walls are the same length, can we also assume the scanner wall is the same length as well?

The roundel walls look like around 8', the scanner wall looks more like 10'. Rob Semenoff on Who3D did a lovely model, as Marc mentioned, and might share some of the dimensions that he inferred for that. It's also possible to measure from screen captures and get a pretty good estimate from other features in the picture.

Crispin

Rassilons Rod

May 06, 2009, 05:35 pm #12 Last Edit: Jun 18, 2010, 01:18 pm by scarfwearer
I had a dig around my stuff and found a plan I have for a story from a previous era (Season 1 to be precise). I think we can extrapolate some info from this.

The roundel recesses are 550mm diameter, and 80 mm either side, like this

80 550 80 550 80 550 80 550 80

Which should give a total width of 2600mm

The doors are 3000mm wide and the screen (assuming the its the same) is 1800mm and the door 1650mm (again if its the same flat).

Finally, the quality isn't great and the height of the flats isn't very clear... But I think it says 3300mm (its the first digit thats obscured... But I'm sure its a 3).

Hope thats some help.
In the cities in the streets there's a tension you can feel,
The breaking strain is fast approaching, guns and riots.
Politicians gamble and lie to save their skins,
And the press get fed the scapegoats,
Public Enema Number One.

transmatdalek

May 07, 2009, 02:50 am #13 Last Edit: Jun 18, 2010, 01:19 pm by scarfwearer
Quote from: rassilonsrod board=discussion thread=1144 post=20549 time=1241631309I had a dig around my stuff and found a plan I have for a story from a previous era (Season 1 to be precise). I think we can extrapolate some info from this.

The roundel recesses are 550mm diameter, and 80 mm either side, like this

80 550 80 550 80 550 80 550 80

Which should give a total width of 2600mm

The doors are 3000mm wide and the screen (assuming the its the same) is 1800mm and the door 1650mm (again if its the same flat).

Finally, the quality isn't great and the height of the flats isn't very clear... But I think it says 3300mm (its the first digit thats obscured... But I'm sure its a 3).

Hope thats some help.


Interesting. Does Season 1 control room dimensions differ from the Five Doctors room much?

Let's see if my interpretation is correct.
1. Door length =3000m width
2. Scanner Wall =1800mm width
3. Inner Door=1650mm
4. Roundel Walls =2600mm each (there are 5 of them)

Now do the columns overlap with any of the above dimensions or are they discrete?



Rassilons Rod

May 07, 2009, 04:20 am #14 Last Edit: Jun 18, 2010, 01:19 pm by scarfwearer
I imagine less so than with Season 15... Season 15 had
the fourth column of roundels cut in half sideways (or the
first column if you look at the right hand panel) and it was
slightly hidden by a  Y-cross-section upright.

The other edges where the pillar goes was just slotted into
the slats on the pillar itself (apparently to make different
angles possible). And that would be no more than 10mm I
guess. Though that measurement is not given on my plans.

-Marc

PS I was just thinking about Bill's overhead Diregram (to
coin an old phrase :)) and thinking that you could add, say,
a wall with 2 columns of roundels to make the interior door
panel more like the same width of the exterior doors panel.
In the cities in the streets there's a tension you can feel,
The breaking strain is fast approaching, guns and riots.
Politicians gamble and lie to save their skins,
And the press get fed the scapegoats,
Public Enema Number One.