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JW Tardis

Started by Cardinal Hordriss, Nov 11, 2017, 07:33 pm

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Cardinal Hordriss

Nov 11, 2017, 07:33 pm Last Edit: Nov 19, 2017, 12:56 pm by Cardinal Hordriss
_98681346_jodie-whittaker-as-the-doct.jpg

Looks a bit flat to me, like the 80's fiberglass props. I wonder if the grooves in the pillars mean they've dropped the wooden look, as I understand only the doors of a metbox would be wooden...

Anyway, only image so far but thought a reference thread was in order.
I speak to you from the final days of Gallifrey. I am the past you have forgotten. You are the future I will not live to see...

superrichi1a

Well, to add my subjectivity to the mix before I say something on topic, I'd love to see this thing with more extruded sign boxes and a blue PTO sign which opens the correct way round. Anyone fancy getting on Photoshop  ;D

I'd be interested to see what this prop has in store in terms of progression. The NST, with its chunky design, had a very long shelf life with, as it turns out, a few good options for alternative colourways. This one seems a little more difficult because, given that those panels still owe so much to the NST, if they're not careful and they change the wrong thing they could end up with a box which looks basically the same, but not quite.

Whether wood or not, from this low res picture I do find the weathering interesting. It looks to me like a blue painted over a white base coat, giving it a certain patchiness. It also has a satin sheen.
I wonder if that lamp is a new haven one without the Gardman topper?
It also looks distinctly like it's lit up with one standard halogen bulb hanging from the middle.
Isn't it how ironic that we have to think of solutions out of the box, in order to build our boxes a lot of the time?

lofiscifi

Nov 13, 2017, 11:08 pm #2 Last Edit: Nov 13, 2017, 11:13 pm by lofiscifi
Hope this might come in handy. Based on the clarification that JD's coat is actually lilac/pale blue, I've tweaked some of the colour settings to give us a better idea of TARDIS blue (just an approximation based on the info about coat colour, of course)... The actual publicity photo has a warming filter on it, making everything appear a bit muted... The more I see it, the more it's grown on me.

_jodie-whittaker-as-the-doctor-bbclogo_doctor-who_s11_costume-reveal.jpg

Also, managed to get hold of a decent high-res copy, so we can see some of the detail... such as the white window frames, wood grain, handles, etc.

Screen Shot 2017-11-13 at 23.04.34.png
Screen Shot 2017-11-13 at 23.04.27.png
Screen Shot 2017-11-13 at 23.04.10.png
Screen Shot 2017-11-13 at 23.03.56.png

ionsith

So we have the quarter round dowels back on the corner posts, which I like... but they look really big!

lofiscifi

Quote from: Angelus Lupus on Nov 14, 2017, 12:35 am
How high res is this image you've found?


Just shy of 10mb. 2000x3406 - bit too big to upload here at max. quality.

Quote from: Angelus Lupus on Nov 14, 2017, 12:35 am
I'd played with the colours myself and come to the conclusion that this Tardis is probably a deeper blue than it first looked. One small caveat, 'tho: Bear in mind that Jodie, the Tardis and the landscape are probably all on different image layers, so the colour grading on the costume might have no relation at all to the hue of the Tardis.


Very true, however my assumption would be a slightly more saturated blue that one we can see on the untouched version of this image.

Angelus Lupus

Quote from: ionsith on Nov 14, 2017, 07:15 pm
So we have the quarter round dowels back on the corner posts, which I like... but they look really big!

Not so sure about that, the Radio Times article says "In an interesting alteration to the Tardis design, the four edges of the frame have become diagonally fluted pillars" which I'm thinking means the outer corners have been chamfered/planed off at a 45° angle. So, not quarter-rounds, but more detail than we've had on the previous NST square posts.

Quote from: lofiscifi on Nov 14, 2017, 08:00 pm
Quote from: Angelus Lupus on Nov 14, 2017, 12:35 am
How high res is this image you've found?

Just shy of 10mb. 2000x3406 - bit too big to upload here at max. quality.

Oooh! Any chance you could share a link, please? Maybe you could crop the image to just the Tardis, would that get it down to forum-suitable file-size?
I know, it seems obsessive.. but it's the only image we have, and obsessing over new Tardis props is kinda our thing here  ;D
A mixed-up non-conformist, trying to fit in.

galacticprobe

Nov 15, 2017, 05:49 am #6 Last Edit: Nov 15, 2017, 06:05 am by galacticprobe
Quote from: Angelus Lupus on Nov 14, 2017, 12:35 am
Bear in mind that Jodie, the Tardis and the landscape are probably all on different image layers, so the colour grading on the costume might have no relation at all to the hue of the Tardis.

Very possible. My wife saw a BBC-posted "color corrected" version of this photo on one of her Doctor Who Hub Facebook pages where the BBC confirmed the coat's color is a "...mix of sky blue and lavender". And while Jodie's image and the coloring changed markedly from the original posted image (shown side-by-side on that page), there was no color change to the rest of the image, including the TARDIS' color.

So this is more than likely a layered image.

Quote from: Angelus Lupus on Nov 14, 2017, 10:16 pm
...the Radio Times article says "In an interesting alteration to the Tardis design, the four edges of the frame have become diagonally fluted pillars" which I'm thinking means the outer corners have been chamfered/planed off at a 45° angle. So, not quarter-rounds, but more detail than we've had on the previous NST square posts.

So the TARDIS in this image could still be a rendered representation of the real thing, just going by the appearance of those corner posts. The trick is deciphering what they mean by "the four edges of the frame have become diagonally fluted pillars"...

Do they mean all of the posts' corners have been given a diagonal cut and then fluted on the cut - which could make them look, in images like this, as having quarter-rounds?

Or do they mean the corner posts are fluted on all sides and positioned on the diagonal to the TARDIS' sides?

Or do they mean the corners of the corner posts have been cut-in to a 90-degree niche, and what's inserted into those niches are round dowels ("pillars") that have diagonal flutes in them?

There's nothing like this sort of vagueness to make one bang one's head against a steel-reinforced concrete wall while waiting for that first "real" look at a revised prop!

Dino.
"What's wrong with being childish?! I like being childish." -3rd Doctor, "Terror of the Autons"

Angelus Lupus

Quote from: galacticprobe on Nov 15, 2017, 05:49 am
Quote from: Angelus Lupus on Nov 14, 2017, 10:16 pm
...the Radio Times article says "In an interesting alteration to the Tardis design, the four edges of the frame have become diagonally fluted pillars" which I'm thinking means the outer corners have been chamfered/planed off at a 45° angle. So, not quarter-rounds, but more detail than we've had on the previous NST square posts.

So the TARDIS in this image could still be a rendered representation of the real thing, just going by the appearance of those corner posts. The trick is deciphering what they mean by "the four edges of the frame have become diagonally fluted pillars"...

Do they mean all of the posts' corners have been given a diagonal cut and then fluted on the cut - which could make them look, in images like this, as having quarter-rounds?

Or do they mean the corner posts are fluted on all sides and positioned on the diagonal to the TARDIS' sides?

Or do they mean the corners of the corner posts have been cut-in to a 90-degree niche, and what's inserted into those niches are round dowels ("pillars") that have diagonal flutes in them?

There's nothing like this sort of vagueness to make one bang one's head against a steel-reinforced concrete wall while waiting for that first "real" look at a revised prop!

Dino.


We're probably going to drive ourselves nuts over figuring that one out, until the BBC bless us with additional images... At which point we'll collectively slap our foreheads and say "Oh! That's what it is!"  ;D
A mixed-up non-conformist, trying to fit in.

Mark

You can see what clearly looks like a quarter round at the top of the post caps. I'm guessing whoever wrote the article didn't notice and thought the columns looked like they had a 45' cut.

Unless, as pointed out above, this is just an artists impression and the real physical box does indeed have the 45' cut thingy.

Maybe a picture of the real deal will emerge if they have started filming.

In my opinion this box looks very close to the Crich police box but except a little fatter maybe and obviously the daft cuts on the corner posts.

If I had the time I'd do a little comparison between this and the Crich type just out of curiosity.

Angelus Lupus

Nov 15, 2017, 03:44 pm #9 Last Edit: Nov 15, 2017, 03:46 pm by Angelus Lupus
Well, I'm pouring over the high- res crops that lofiscifi updated his post with, and wow!
I've drawn some highlights on this bit and (once more) changed my mind. Here's what I'm now seeing:
Image1.jpg

We definitely have post caps, and 3 roof steps! We have the facing panels on the fronts of the posts,and the middle part I've highlighted? I'm 98% sure that is a quarter-round. Oh and I'm 99.5% sure the windws are white  ;D
A mixed-up non-conformist, trying to fit in.

Rassilons Rod

Why do I suddenly think they've built a ring beam that slots on to the posts?

And that they couldn't hide the join, so they made it a feature.....

Hmmm....
In the cities in the streets there's a tension you can feel,
The breaking strain is fast approaching, guns and riots.
Politicians gamble and lie to save their skins,
And the press get fed the scapegoats,
Public Enema Number One.

Angelus Lupus

Quote from: karsthotep on Nov 15, 2017, 04:14 pm
Its growing on me, the more I sit with it and look at the details the more I like it. 

I'm with you on that, especially after seeing the higher quality crops.

Quote from: rassilonsrod on Nov 15, 2017, 04:29 pm
Why do I suddenly think they've built a ring beam that slots on to the posts?

And that they couldn't hide the join, so they made it a feature.....

Hmmm....


Maybe. I mean, it does look like there's little-to-no gap between the top signs and the posts, so it could be one piece... if this is the real prop (which I'm inclined to think) and not a digital image. That would certainly be interesting to see. I guess we have to wait for some intrepid fans to snap this thing being put together on location.
A mixed-up non-conformist, trying to fit in.

Scarfwearer

Nov 19, 2017, 02:47 pm #12 Last Edit: Nov 19, 2017, 03:13 pm by Scarfwearer
Looking at it, I'm wondering whether whilst it has a lot of superficial features from earlier designs, this box may have some of the basic dimensions of an NST. The panels/windows still look rather wide, for example. They've also kept the rather thick frame around the phone door.
I'd speculate that they wanted to make the look more traditional, while realizing they still have a possibly huge stock of hero, stunt, and promotional builds in the NST design, and they may have felt that keeping some similar dimensions would make it easier to re-purpose/redress some of those props.
The grooves around the posts may be a case of making a virtue of necessity, allowing the posts to be extended by the necessary six inches or so (to accommodate the taller bottom panel and steps below the sign boxes), while hiding the join. If the bottoms of the existing walls and doors on the props have to be extended it would be harder to do that seamlessly, but that low down they mostly won't show...

Here are some comparative pictures, which I've straightened up, though the horizontal stretch is pure guesswork.
jw-straightened.jpg

I can't help thinking that if this new design took a blank slate that it would be more different from the NST than it is. The posts may look narrower simply because the edges have been taken off (either beveled or with quadrants, we'll see...)

I'm thinking the lock may have been lowered because all the previous NuWho Doctors have been around 6' tall, whereas Jodie Whittaker is about 6 inches shorter. And if the door is getting about 4" taller because of the higher bottom rail, the handle would be inconveniently high for her.

superrichi1a

Nov 19, 2017, 10:47 pm #13 Last Edit: Mar 02, 2018, 06:13 pm by Scarfwearer
The theory is a great one, though I disagree about the reasoning. Whilst it's clear that the NST is just as much of a design influence as the classic boxes, I don't feel that it would be to fit in older parts, and the notches to hide alterations. More likely, I feel that it was just the design the BBC had on hand, the starting point from which the designers began the rest of their journey. Thus, I wouldn't be surprised if several core dimensions, such as the base and the panels, have remained virtually unchanged, the designers instead fiddling with those outside dimensions which require fiddling for the simplest aesthetic alteration.

As for the handle... I hadn't considered it could have been because of Jodie's height before, good idea! Although that's also drawn my attention to the positioning disparity...

New theory: the sign boxes are lit by LED strips that also partially illuminate the blue vinyl, the windows by a single hanging bulb.
Isn't it how ironic that we have to think of solutions out of the box, in order to build our boxes a lot of the time?

galacticprobe

Nov 20, 2017, 06:18 am #14 Last Edit: Nov 21, 2017, 03:51 pm by galacticprobe
Quote from: Scarfwearer on Nov 19, 2017, 02:47 pm
I'd speculate that they wanted to make the look more traditional, while realizing they still have a possibly huge stock of hero, stunt, and promotional builds in the NST design, and they may have felt that keeping some similar dimensions would make it easier to re-purpose/redress some of those props.
The grooves around the posts may be a case of making a virtue of necessity, allowing the posts to be extended by the necessary six inches or so (to accommodate the taller bottom panel and steps below the sign boxes), while hiding the join. If the bottoms of the existing walls and doors on the props have to be extended it would be harder to do that seamlessly, but that low down they mostly won't show...

I'm thinking the lock may have been lowered because all the previous NuWho Doctors have been around 6' tall, whereas Jodie Whittaker is about 6 inches shorter. And if the door is getting about 4" taller because of the higher bottom rail, the handle would be inconveniently high for her.


All this being taken into consideration, since they do have several boxes of the hero, stunt, and promotional kind, and with Jodie Whittaker being six inches shorter than the last four actors, why would the designers even consider raising the doors just to get in that larger bottom stile on the doors and side panels in the first place? ('Oh, the new actor taking the role is half-a-foot shorter than the last four, so let's redesign the prop and make the doors taller!' Makes about as much sense as a screen door on a submarine so it can strain the fish out.)

Adding the steps above the doors wouldn't have any effect on the door height, only the roof height. So things left as they were door-wise, I don't think Jodie would have had anymore difficulty with the lock or handle on the door than did Billie Piper (5'5"), Freema Agyeman (5'3"), Catherine Tate (5'7"), Jenna Coleman (5'2"), Pearl Mackie (5'6"), (Karen Gillan not withstanding; at 5'11" she's an Amazon compared to them!), and last but not least, Matt Lucas at 5'7". Each of them managed the handle and lock with no trouble. So if the designers were so worried about Jodie's height, why make the doors taller and necessitate repositioning the handle and lock? Were they that eager to spend money on something that wasn't really necessary?

Having to raise the roof to accommodate the return of the steps under the new Top Signs is necessary, and would require new corner posts; but then even those posts would only need to be taller, not "notched" at the top and bottom. (How many times since 2005 have they replaced the corner posts, making them either narrower or wider?) They could have simply made the new posts taller, and if they wanted it would have been the perfect time to bring back the quarter-rounds. Even replacing the Phone Panel door would have been of little cost. Any or all of the existing boxes could have been retrofitted with those new changes, probably at a lesser cost than it will be to retrofit them with all this new prop's embellishments (taller bottom stile, shallower panels, repositioned lock and handle, those <ick> notches in the posts) which still just don't look right.

Retrofitting any existing boxes to match this new design isn't practical when you consider just what they've done with the recessed panels alone; they'd need to tear every box apart and rebuild it. So when it comes down to it, they'll need to build all new stunt, promo, etc. props... again a whole lot of money that could have been better spent on the show. (I don't want to hear the BBC complain about any budget cuts if they can afford to spend money this unnecessarily.)

Might as well have made the TARDIS do a massive "Chameleon Shift" and end up looking like an Edinburgh Box; I'd have liked that design far better than I like this one - which I don't. The Edinburgh Boxes look far better.

Dino.
"What's wrong with being childish?! I like being childish." -3rd Doctor, "Terror of the Autons"