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St. John Ambulance sign

Started by retfordlad, Aug 02, 2005, 01:19 pm

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retfordlad

Aug 02, 2005, 01:19 pm Last Edit: Jun 08, 2010, 08:13 pm by Scarfwearer
What-ho -

Somones BOUND to know the diametre of the thing - getting a batch of the ASSOCIATION size made up as decals same as on my UNIT Landrover - all that remains is to apply to a disc of pre-sprayed metal and screw it to ye door !

Someone said Purp was BOUND to know !!!

Steve 8-)

Mark

Aug 04, 2005, 06:08 pm #1 Last Edit: Jan 22, 2010, 10:23 am by scarfwearer
lol.!

Is there that much to say! Better get cracking then

pod

Oct 04, 2008, 06:03 pm #2 Last Edit: Jun 08, 2010, 08:10 pm by Scarfwearer
Does anybody know if it's at all possible to source an actual St. John's sign, ie a metal screw-on version? Or, failing that, a printable version from which a suitable copy could be made?

kiwidoc

Jan 21, 2009, 08:32 am #3 Last Edit: Jan 22, 2010, 10:34 am by scarfwearer
Quote from: pod board=manual thread=937 post=19279 time=1232516952Twice.


Ow... ow ow ow ow owoowowowowowowowowow  and then OW again!

ironageman

Jun 30, 2005, 02:46 pm #4 Last Edit: Jun 16, 2010, 04:52 pm by Scarfwearer
Does anyone happen to remember which form of the St John Ambulance sign was used on the Cushing prop(s)? I seem to remember it as reading The St John Ambulance Association, thus:
[noimg]http://sc.groups.msn.com/tn/0A/12/TheTARDISRebuilders/a/6f.jpg[/img]
whereas the Ealing box (or at least the box used in one particular film that I saw) had this wording:
[noimg]http://sc.groups.msn.com/tn/0A/12/TheTARDISRebuilders/a/70.jpg[/img]
I'm not expecting anyone to sit through those dreadful Cushing films, I hasten to add, but someone may know of some relevant stills...?
leonard cohen  1934-2016  standing by the window where the light is strong

littlekentucky

Dec 01, 2008, 03:29 pm #5 Last Edit: Jan 26, 2010, 11:56 am by scarfwearer
Quote from: doctorwho8 board=film thread=315 post=18235 time=1227635529They were probably originally painted metal.  But you could get by with plastic.
Bill Rudloff


Many thanks Bill :)

Ron

galacticprobe

Apr 30, 2010, 02:57 pm #6 Last Edit: May 01, 2010, 12:42 pm by galacticprobe
Greetings, All,

  I just noticed something, thanks to my wife. To help cheer me up during this miserable back surgery recovery she bought me the Peter Cushing Doctor Who Collection. She found it on Amazon and it comes as a boxed set containing "Doctor Who and the Daleks", "Daleks: Invasion Earth 2150 AD", and "Dalekmania" (a documentary about the making of the films and of Daleks). For those interested you can check it out at Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Doctor-Who-Collection-Peter-Cushing/dp/B00005OCK9/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1272638992&sr=1-1

  Anyway, as I have already admitted to at times being a TARDIS Nazi rivet counter, I noticed that the Peter Cushing version of the TARDIS, which is the closest to the real police boxes, has the St. John Ambulance logo containing the full wording of "The St. John Ambulance Association", whereas the Hartnell (and now the Matt Smith) box has the simpler wording of "St. John Ambulance" only.

  I wasn't sure if anyone else had noticed that detail so I thought I'd let everyone know because it would make a difference depending on which version of the box one is building. And while I'm always quick to say that "it's all relative", especially with regards to the dimensions of doors, posts, panels, etc., there's also another phrase I use, although not as often, when it comes to things that sort of stand out in your face (such as logos) and that one is "The devil is in the details."

Dino.
"What's wrong with being childish?! I like being childish." -3rd Doctor, "Terror of the Autons"

mechanoid

I'm not absolutely certain of this but the St Johns Logo on the Hartnell era TARDIS is letter less and only has a simple representation of the rather more ornate look of the St Johns Logo proper. This is certainly true of the pilot episode as I have a clear screen grab of the doors. I think I am right in saying that this did not change as the prop was redressed for the transmitted episode and beyond apart from being dirtied.

galacticprobe

May 03, 2010, 07:35 am #8 Last Edit: May 29, 2010, 05:16 am by galacticprobe
Quote from: mechanoid on May 01, 2010, 07:17 pm
I'm not absolutely certain of this but the St Johns Logo on the Hartnell era TARDIS is letter less and only has a simple representation of the rather more ornate look of the St Johns Logo proper. This is certainly true of the pilot episode as I have a clear screen grab of the doors. I think I am right in saying that this did not change as the prop was redressed for the transmitted episode and beyond apart from being dirtied.


You may be right. Here are the two versions:

StJohnLogo(CushingBox).jpg
Logo as appeared on the Peter Cushing Box (Note: The little grey circles in the black area at 9 and 3 o'clock positions I believe are where the screws were that held the "plate" to the box.)
                                     
StJohnLogo(Hartnell-SmithBox).jpg
Logo as appeared on the William Hartnell, and now the Matt Smith Box (Note: When I found this image it did not have the grey circles like the Cushing box version, but I believe it would be safe to say they exist, and would be probably in roughly the same positions.)

So, there they are, side by side, same resolution according to the properties that this computer is telling me. So I will let better eyes than mine give these a good going over to see what level of details they have. IMHO, however, each has some details that are better than the other, and anyone with a good photoshop-type application, a steady hand, and a keen eye, can do some combining to create both versions of the logo using the best bits of both versions of the logo. (OK, if that sounded funny, it was intentional. If it didn't sound funny, sorry; it was supposed to.)

One thing I did notice about the Hartnell box St. John logo, in a later episode (I can't remember the name, but it was after Susan left, but Ian and Barbara were still with the Doctor and Vicki), and that was the logo "appeared" to be a sticker. Now, either it was the lighting, the plate was a thin one and was starting to bend a bit at the top and bottom - which is possible considering the abuse that poor box took - or it was a sticker that was starting to come loose, maybe again.

Not to confuse the issue even more, but I remember someone in an earlier post mentioned finding a logo that said "The St. John Ambulance Brigade". I don't think I've ever seen that version on any "Official" TARDIS prop, so I'm not sure where that one might have come from (and I'm having trouble finding the post that mentioned that version).

Dino
"What's wrong with being childish?! I like being childish." -3rd Doctor, "Terror of the Autons"

Rassilons Rod

May 03, 2010, 08:29 am #9 Last Edit: May 03, 2010, 08:30 am by rassilonsrod
I would be tempted to question if the Cushing one is meant to look so "lo fi" where the lions and unicorns
are concerned...

Could it be that they have lost resolution over time and that is a reconstructed image?

Perhaps they were always like that on that version, but I would be tempted to replace them myself
if I were to go for a "fully worded" badge. But thats just me :)

Great post though :D
In the cities in the streets there's a tension you can feel,
The breaking strain is fast approaching, guns and riots.
Politicians gamble and lie to save their skins,
And the press get fed the scapegoats,
Public Enema Number One.

chriskingbees

This is the best image I can find of the SJ's badge on the Hartnell Tardis

Copy of hartnell and tardis.jpg

It is blown up quite a bit, but seems to show no lettering or lions and unicorns

KB

Scarfwearer

Just to throw some more info into the mix, here's an image that [ref url=index.php?action=viewprofile;u=112]ironageman[/ref] found a while back, which is now in our archives:

Quote from: ironageman on Jul 21, 2003, 12:00 am
ambulance sign, 6" diameter
You cannot see attachments on this board.
I've seen the wording 'Brigade' (as here) on a police box in a 1950s film,
but I believe that 'Association' is correct for the Tardis.



and also this one

Quote from: ironageman on Nov 30, 2009, 07:48 pm

St John plate, more modern
You cannot see attachments on this board.
It appears that the more modern plates have neither 'Brigade' nor 'Association
.'


You can click on the quote headings to take you to the posts in the archives.

Crispin

the_doctor

Also on the eBay Police Box listing, if you watch the video further down the page you can see the St John's badge very clearly.

It appears that the Matt Smith version is a further variant as it does not have the 2nd inner black ring and the text is more central in the circle, if that makes any sense!

:)

galacticprobe

May 04, 2010, 05:28 am #13 Last Edit: May 05, 2010, 05:43 am by galacticprobe
Ah-ha... I see Crispin has found that "Brigade" image I mentioned (lastly) in my post, so he has (so very sadly) proven that I am not insane. (Thanks, Crispin; there go all my excuses!) I also see I was right in my guess of where those mounting screws went.

As for Rassilon's comments on the quality of the Cushing box logo, I've thought the same thing; those lions and unicorns look (here I go again, quoting from another SF movie) rather "De-rezzed." It could very well be a copy of a copy of a copy... I can't remember where I found it, but I did so when looking for the logo for a Hartnell box I was planning to build (full-size or model - wasn't sure then). I saw <gasp!> TWO versions of the logo so I grabbed both and figured that I'd find out which one was the Hartnell logo later on. And I also thought the same thing about taking the best of the Hartnell and Cushing versions and "Frankensteining" a St. John logo to get the best of both worlds.

Ironageman's images (at least the simpler version image) is definitely different than the one I thought looked like the one from the Hartnell box, which I think is from a publicity image that I have (and after consulting my image I realize that it is the image Chriskingbees has enlarged in his post). Yeah, that logo is rather, shall we say, filthy? I believe that image is a publicity photo from "The Dalek Master Plan", so we might have to get a clearer image (if possible!) from an earlier story, maybe even the pilot. Although, and again I'll have to check - and re-check - my DVDs of "The Beginnings" and see if I can discern anything new.

Just when you thought it was safe to go back towards the box... dare I share THIS logo I found?

StJohnLogo(blue).gif

I have no idea where it came from (you know, I should really jot down the sites when I find these things because I keep seeing myself typing that I can't remember where I find them - which I can't!) but it struck me very oddly because this logo is, well, it's blue. (Just like The Bucket Woman's alarm box: it's blue!) (Incidentally, I have a clone of The Bucket Woman living right next door to me! Only this one looks like a Sleestack from the 1975, and current movie, versions. With short, curly white hair. OK. Now I won't be the only one having nightmares tonight.)

So... anyone care to hazard a guess as to where a blue St. John Logo would have originated? (And of course this opens up another possibility for customizing a TARDIS exterior. We all know how temperamental those Type-40s can be!)

I... think I've done enough damage (for now)... <laughing like Renfield>

Dino
"What's wrong with being childish?! I like being childish." -3rd Doctor, "Terror of the Autons"

mechanoid

May 04, 2010, 08:04 pm #14 Last Edit: May 04, 2010, 08:05 pm by mechanoid
cap1261.jpg

Taken from the pilot episode just before Barbara bursts through the doors.