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Pebbled Glass

Started by TG, Jul 04, 2005, 04:08 pm

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TG

Jul 04, 2005, 04:08 pm Last Edit: Jun 05, 2010, 11:57 pm by Scarfwearer
I have at last found someone (in the UK) who says they can supply the 'pebbled' glass (I sent them a picture of what I wanted) and when I get a price I'll post the details here.

My question is - to make the build look like a TARDIS, should it just be pebbled glass in panes four and six?
Or are any of you putting pebbled in all panes?

Thanks again for your help
TG


DoctorWho8

Jul 11, 2009, 04:14 pm #1 Last Edit: Jan 22, 2010, 09:42 am by scarfwearer
Nothing wrong with putting some of the off panes in the back wall.  It would give your box more character.
Bill Rudloff

ironageman

Jul 04, 2005, 04:38 pm #2 Last Edit: Jun 05, 2010, 09:55 pm by scarfwearer
That's quite a find. I tried to get some a few years back and was told that it was out of production though I've since found an American company that makes it.

Are we all agreed on 4 and 6 for a Tardis?  Certainly so for a Barnet build, but five of the six panes were pebbled on these things:

library1.jpg

(from the Builders Guild and indeed the Tardis Library)
leonard cohen  1934-2016  standing by the window where the light is strong

purpleblancmange

Jul 04, 2005, 05:04 pm #3 Last Edit: Jun 05, 2010, 09:56 pm by scarfwearer
Quote from: timegirl board=build thread=1120493335 post=1120493335I have at last found someone (in the UK) who says they can supply the 'pebbled' glass (I sent them a picture of what I wanted) and when I get a price I'll post the details here.

My question is - to make the build look like a TARDIS, should it just be pebbled glass in panes four and six?
Or are any of you putting pebbled in all panes?

Thanks again for your help
TG


This has been the bain of my life for quite some time now, the glass went out of production 10 or 15 years ago and I haven't been able to find any... when I've shown pictures of the stuff to experts, they've all told me that it's Hammered Glass - well, looks like pebbles to me. 

I braved the rain this afternoon to ask around all the glass shops in this area and talk about defeatist, "You'll never find any of that."  Oh yeah?

Anyway, if there's a source of this stuff TG, I'd be very interested, maybe you could PM me or something.  Oh, and TARDIS windows, I'd say it's predominantly lower outside right and left that has the pebbles, all the rest is frosted.

Purple

ironageman

Jul 04, 2005, 05:17 pm #4 Last Edit: Jun 05, 2010, 09:56 pm by scarfwearer
Yes, thinking about it, it was about that long ago that I tried to get some.

This American company evidently still makes or supplies it, though only very thin stuff:
http://www.miror.com/

'Hammered' seems to describe both the pebbly-looking stuff and another glass that's been made in such a way that it looks (to my confused mind) as if it's got little maggots all over it.
leonard cohen  1934-2016  standing by the window where the light is strong

Mark

Jul 04, 2005, 06:35 pm #5 Last Edit: Jun 05, 2010, 09:57 pm by scarfwearer
Nice find TG.

As for which panes to "pebble"....

The majority of TARDISes have the lower left and right panes of glass pebbled with the rest being frosted (or painted gray!), as is the same as Barnet By Pass box.

That said, the Crich box has the same window glass layout as the box in Ironage's picture (above), except an absence of blue glass.

You could go for the odd arangements as seen in the McGaan tv movie. Nothing wrong with a bit of variety! ;D

hb88banzai

Jul 05, 2005, 11:45 am #6 Last Edit: Aug 11, 2014, 08:55 am by hb88banzai
Unfortunately, the definitions are kind of relative.

They are both types of patterned glass, made by rolling the still hot glass under patterned rollers during the final stages of manufacture.

As such, of course, the exact pattern varied according the the manufacturer - even the size or scale of the pattern elements can vary quite drastically.  What is available now will almost certainly NOT match what was available then.  

That said, generally "pebbled glass" has a pattern that looks something like as if tiny spherical balls of varying size were briefly pressed into the hot glass and then removed, or pressed in and left to become part of the glass.  This generally means more or less round dimples in the glass or little round hemispheres sticking out of the glass, respectively.  Can also be slightly oblong and a bit irregular, more like natural stream pebbles, but still usually with clearly defined edges and slight gaps between.

In contrast, "hammered glass" more properly refers to a pattern that is suggestive of the very old method of actually gently taking a hammer to one side of the hot glass to create small, relatively shallow dish-shaped impressions with some overlap so that you have a semi-regular pattern of IRREGULAR depressions. The craters produced can be smooth bottomed or quite bumpy, depending on the effect desired by the manufacturer.

On the suggested site, that is a fairly strong version of "hammered glass" in that it is DEEP in the depressions and almost like a cross between hammered glass and pebbled glass.  Of course, it's 1/8" glass and subject to breakage and there is no clear idea of the scale of the pattern.  

Similar patterns have at various times been available in perspex - of course, good luck in finding it.

All that said, it seems the impression I get in most of the pics posted here and elsewhere of actual boxes is that they usually come off as "pebbled" despite the Trench plans specifying "hammered" (I note that in the Crich box pics it appears to have both types in different locations, possibly taken at different times).

Most of the TARDIS pics seem to show it with more of a pebbled texture, though the McGann TARDIS is closer to a true "hammered" glass.

Oh, while on the subject, I do recall back in the day seeing at least one pic of the old series TARDIS at some point or another having a glass pattern identical to the McGann TARDIS right door, though it may have been a window in one of the side panels.

ironageman

Jul 05, 2005, 12:28 pm #7 Last Edit: Jun 05, 2010, 09:59 pm by scarfwearer
Here's the back of the Barnet box, showing what I assume to be replacement glass haphazardly installed. I rather like the effect.
backwindows.jpg
Pane 6 of the right-hand window is the 'pebbled' type of hammered glass, and is what one tends to think of for Tardis windows. I've seen similar glass with more geometric-looking indentations, closer to polygons than ovals, which I imagine to be a later type.

Pane 4 of the same window is in the irregular or 'maggot' hammered glass.

I think that if you ask for hammered glass and don't show 'em a sample, you could get either. Or more likely neither, of course...
leonard cohen  1934-2016  standing by the window where the light is strong

TG

Jul 05, 2005, 02:23 pm #8 Last Edit: Jun 05, 2010, 10:01 pm by scarfwearer
I've just spoken to the glass people today and they assure me that they have some of the glass - that it is an old design, no longer made and that it will be expensive!
I've sent them more details and measurements and they are going to get me a price and I've asked them for a sample
I sent them Mark's photo of the Crich box window (hope that's OK Mark??) is this the correct reference?
DoorWindowInterior1.jpg
I so hope it is the right stuff....
I will post the details as soon as I know.
TG

Mark

Jul 05, 2005, 06:36 pm #9 Last Edit: Oct 31, 2010, 11:26 pm by Scarfwearer
That particular design of glass is used on all the windows (I think there may be a couple of the worm type) at the Crich box.

In comparison to other's such as Barnet and TARDIS designs,
[noIMG]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y194/Mark7081/th_ExteriorFULL.jpg[/img]
There is only one clear panel per window!

Oh (many thanks to Bazai) this is a clickable thumbnail thingy to save space (Is that the correct terminology Banzai? ;D)

dematerialiser

Jul 06, 2005, 09:39 pm #10 Last Edit: Jun 05, 2010, 10:07 pm by scarfwearer
Hi everyone

Re: Pebbled glass, I've just managed to find some of the stuff (genuine, old, pebbled rather than hammered) by scouting around local glaziers - you might find some reclaimed glass as they often replace glass in doors etc if they're not made from safety glass. Luckily I got a whole door-sized piece which they've assured me can be cut to size.
Only one extra detail - the pebbled texture is only on one side which I guess is a natural feature of the production process. Does anyone know whether the texture should be on the inside or outside? The man in the shop thought it should be inward facing.

I'm a bit of a lurker on this (brilliant) board at the moment as my build hasn't started yet - I'm working with a carpenter on mine due to over developed plans and under developed woodworking skills  ;D

I hope to contribute more to the board when I've got something to show (planning to take photo's throughout the build)

But in the meantime I'm collecting all of the other stuff I need - thanks Timegirl for the link to the fresnel lamp lens from marinestore. I'm creating the sign graphics from scratch as well, does anyone has a good clear photo of the phone panel sign from season 18?

cheers!
Chris

Mark

Jul 06, 2005, 10:37 pm #11 Last Edit: Jun 05, 2010, 10:08 pm by scarfwearer
Hello Chris,

Don't just lurk, jump in whenever you get the urge.

I too don't have a shred of woodwork to show for my planned build (I do have a lamp, a phone, two door handles, tons of drawings and plans and a TARDIS shaped hole!) but this is the best time to post as I can learn from other's mistakes ;D

Can't wait to see you work on these pages.

There is a picture of the Season 18 prop which I posted on here somewhere. It's a fairly good size but don't remember if you can clearly see the sign?

bach4me

Jul 07, 2005, 03:04 am #12 Last Edit: Jun 05, 2010, 10:10 pm by scarfwearer
I would strongly recommend going to stained glass suppliers.  Not only can you obviously find any colour you may need, but they have many different textures as well.  Try this:

http://www.warner-criv.com/product.aspx?id=9976-01H

Comparing this to the photos posted I would say it is pretty close.

Happy hunting!
Benjamin

dematerialiser

Jul 07, 2005, 08:58 am #13 Last Edit: Jun 05, 2010, 10:11 pm by scarfwearer
Hi Mark

thanks for the encouragement  ;D
I'm enjoying getting all of the bits and pieces I need for the box, but I'm a stickler for detail (who on this board isn't..   :P ) and trying to find the right references can be a real challenge. I found the season 18 prop photo you posted:

[noimg]http://uk.geocities.com/landru1999/goodsign2.jpg[/img]

But the weird thing is the fonts used - it seems to be a cross between the signs that most people create: the top half is in Times New Roman (or something like that) and the bottom half in a compressed Arial style font..

What does everyone think of this approach? It's not one I've seen people using for their own builds..

cheers
Chris

PS: apologies for starting a new thread inside this one..!

purpleblancmange

Jul 07, 2005, 10:22 am #14 Last Edit: Jun 05, 2010, 10:12 pm by scarfwearer
Quote from: dematerialiser board=build thread=1120493335 post=1120726703
But the weird thing is the fonts used - it seems to be a cross between the signs that most people create: the top half is in Times New Roman (or something like that) and the bottom half in a compressed Arial style font..

What does everyone think of this approach? It's not one I've seen people using for their own builds..


If you want detailed information on why things like this happened (and when) with the various TARDIS props, go to:

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/~trekker/policeboxes/

There is a full history there.

As for the strange wording on this panel, it was never meant to be seen as it was made for the old Newbery TARDIS prop that was redressed to look like the fibre glass prop for Castrovalva.  Essentially I think the sign writer got fed up and simplified the font half way through.