Gunnersbury Park, South Acton Box

[tony farrell]

T43 - Gunnersbury Park Box

Picture of T43 as it appeared in the 1951 Film "The Lavender Hill Mob"

Hi Alan.

I can't seem to find any pictures of this box (only the Google map and Google Street view). Apologies if I've simply missed it.

For your information, Clayton Hickman has sent me the following picture of this box as it appeared in the 1951 British comedy film "The Lavender Hill Mob".



Thanks to Clay for the information and also for the modern-day view from almost the exact same view-point.

T

[hb88banzai]

Hi Tony,

You don't know how many times I've looked for this Box location to find out if it was a real Box or a prop in "The Lavender Hill Mob". However, where exactly did you or Clay take this streetview (perhaps post a URL or at least street names). Reason I ask is that though the view looks a lot like that in the movie, it does NOT look like the corner T43 was on (Southeast corner of junction of Gunnersbury Avenue and Gunnersbury Lane) per the Met List, the 1953 Met Survey, and the only OS maps that show it (1960, 1:1250 scale & 1961, 1:2500 scale), and thus where I had looked when searching.

Per all of those sources Box T43 was sited here in streetview (about centre frame, a little closer to the fence than the curb) --


URL: https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5010164,-0.2849747,3a,75y,68.4h,82.23t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sskUxsy8FJkwRKUP6eHBijw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

As you can see, this doesn't really match either the streetview you posted nor the Lavender Hill Mob capture. Though it does say there was a resite, no other information is given, and the close proximity of the 1953 Met Survey to the 1951 film makes it less likely a resite was responsible for the difference (smaller scale OS maps show there were no significant changes at this corner between the 1940s and 1960s as well, on either side of the road).

[Dalekoracle]

Clay puts the box on the junction of Popes Lane and Gunnersbury Drive
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5008199,-0.2872973,3a,37.5y,276.73h,88.5t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s-KOCzPbq_GyC3uM0-VQajA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Thats roughly 120 yards due west of the Box' original location.

https://twitter.com/dalekoracle/status/822918165512515584/photo/1

Mark

[hb88banzai]

Ah, you beat me to it. I found it myself while waiting, but the OS map marked Box site to this one is actually about 215 yards west as the crow flies (I measured it using map tools on Nat'l Lib of Scotland site), this possible earlier site being at the northwest corner of the junction of Gunnersbury Drive and Popes Lane.

The original clip I took that frame capture from many years ago doesn't appear to be on youtube anymore, but a poorly encoded one does (frames clipped off and wrong aspect ratio), but still enough to use to verify as the original shot leading up to the Constable going to the Box swung around with the car to some extent, beginning the shot by looking up Gunnersbury Drive. The house on the right middle distance in the that first shot matches to one that's still there (though the roof facing has changed from ornate to plain) and the houses up Popes Lane also seem to match those in the clip.

Here's the original capture domvar posted back in 2012 (http://tardisbuilders.com/index.php?topic=4082.0) --



And here's a streetview from April 2016 --


URL: https://www.google.com/maps/@51.500844,-0.2874126,3a,30y,284.75h,86.68t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s2oaR-n_1hAICYz-xuXahNw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

Even some details in the wall on the left are the same, though what looked to be a wall beyond the iron fence on the right is now a wooden fence. Older maps show that the bit beyond the rail at the corner used to be a pond, though unnamed.

[petewilson]

 Surely this is a prop?

The lamp is wrong as it looks (to me) to be on castors.......

[hb88banzai]

The closeup shots of the Constable grabbing the phone and speaking into it were always known to be a prop, but also looked to be done in studio. This location shoot Box indeed did look strange, but to me it looked like more than a bit like a Mark 1 (which is wrong for T Division, however), though the roof is even a bit odd for one of those. Mark 1's were often propped up on blocks, at least in the early days, so it wasn't all that strange to see it this way (note also that the sidewalk is sloping, so doesn't appear to be blocks under the right side, or at least they're much shorter).

Here's a blowup (though I do wish we had a nice capture of a DVD or Blu-ray) --



If it was a prop, then why go to all the trouble and expense when a couple hundred yards to the east was a real Box (if there at the time, noting that the 1960, 1:1250 scale OS map was actually surveyed in July 1959)?

[tony farrell]

Alan is correct, the close-up in the film is a prop (in fact - we now know which prop it was too, but, more on that elsewhere) the street scene is the real Police Box.

Here's another street view Clay sent me and an aerial map:




BTW, Alan the house roofs haven't changed - it's just in the intervening sixty-something years that the trees have grown and now hide them (I was there earlier last year and can confirm that).

T

[hb88banzai]

No, I wasn't referring to the Pope's Lane roofs changing, but rather the gable fascia boards on the house up Gunnersbury Drive --



Rest of that house still looks the same, and is enough to help confirm the match to this location.

Still, an interesting Box if not a prop. Perhaps I will have to purchase a copy of the film to try to get a better capture.

Great spotting on your and Clay's part, regardless.

[tony farrell]

Clay's work not mine - he had a look at the filming schedule/locations log for "The Lavender Hill Mob"!

And, as a bit of fun, he also did this then and now combo!



T

[hb88banzai]

Hmmm...

Adding some data points.

An aerial photo dated 3 November 1953 - zoomed in to southwest corner of Gunnersbury Ave & Gunnersbury Lane --



A Met Box is clearly at the location described in the Met List rather than that shown in "The Lavender Hill Mob". Other photos from the same flight show no Box at the other location.

Closeup from an aerial photo of the movie location dated 25 July 1952 --



We are looking directly at the corner shown in the movie, yet no trace of a Box is visible. Most of the other photos in this flight do not show the right angle on the Met List location, but this next one does appear to barely catch a glimpse of it (roof and windows visible just above house, centre frame, and just below the truck) --



A sharpened blowup for those of us with tired eyes --



Unfortunately, all the other aerial photos of the area are either too early, too late, or (for those actually from the late 30's or 40's) too far away, grainy, or at the wrong angle to really show us anything.

[Dalekoracle]

Clay's work not mine - he had a look at the filming schedule/locations log for "The Lavender Hill Mob"!

And, as a bit of fun, he also did this then and now combo!



T

erm.... no. He didn't do the Then and Now combo. I replied to his tweet with a little Timeslip of my own, which he reposted. (i'd have thought the name "dalekoracle" on Twitter might have been a bit of a giveaway.)

Its been retweeted a few times now!

Mark

[tony farrell]

He sent it me by private message yesterday so I assumed he'd done it. I don't use Twitter in the sense of avidly reading every 'tweet', rather I only follow a conversation that I'm 'tagged' in i.e., I get a notification or if something particularly catches my eye.

I didn't even know you were on Twitter until you posted the link this morning.

So, apologies Mark for not giving you the credit you deserve!  

T

[tony farrell]

I've had a look at the Met Box listing for T43. In it Mark states that the box was re-sited to its final position. Unfortunately, the list doesn't state where it was moved from. Given the gaps in the Ordnance Survey history (the earliest 1:2500 scale map I can find is dated 1937 - and doesn't show any Police Box at all, whilst the 1959/1961 version shows it in its 'final' position), surely it is possible that the location Clayton indentified was its original position?

(According to their website, long gaps between Ordnance surveys are quite typical as areas only tend to get re-surveyed after major alterations have been undertaken. So, it's entirely possible that the area was only surveyed in 1937 and again in 1959.)

BTW, even though "The Lavender Hill Mob" was released in June 1951, it must have been filmed at least several months before this. The absence of leaves on the trees in the screen-grab indicates either late Autumn/Winter 1950 or possibly, the first couple of months in 1951.



T

[petewilson]

If anybody's interested;-

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lavender-Hill-Mob-60th-Anniversary/dp/B00525QHM8

But I'm still in the Wooden Prop camp!   

[tony farrell]

There's nothing wrong with a bit of friendly disagreement Pete! But then, if the real Police Box was only 200 yards away (as per the 1959 survey) why didn't they just film the bobby running up to that instead? 

T