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The Newport Police Box

Started by robertpunk, Aug 28, 2009, 01:22 pm

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Scarfwearer

Sep 14, 2008, 01:11 pm #30 Last Edit: Feb 15, 2010, 11:45 am by Scarfwearer
It's still there. I happened to be in Newport today, so I stopped by and took some pictures. This is 2 years on now from Tom's last visit.
newport1.jpg newport2.jpg newport3.jpg newport4.jpg newport5.jpg

Crispin

whitestar1969

Aug 27, 2009, 11:47 am #31 Last Edit: Feb 05, 2010, 05:39 pm by scarfwearer
Update on the condition of this box
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/south_east/8223310.stm

Hope its not too late to save this one and something can be done to find the cash to fund a proper restoration. Fingers crossed!

Teletran

Aug 28, 2009, 09:35 am #32 Last Edit: Feb 05, 2010, 05:39 pm by scarfwearer
This is a later style box isn't it?
My father told me that they used to 'overcement' concrete structures which incidentally prolonged the life of the reinforcement frame. I'm not sure if this would have been done here (or in any police box) potentially limiting the lifespan of the box.
(http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/1360/omni02g.jpg)

dustyfro

Sep 02, 2009, 05:31 am #33 Last Edit: Feb 05, 2010, 05:39 pm by scarfwearer
I just read about it on anglotopia.  Told them I know a few good TARDIS builders ;) http://www.anglotopia.net/2009/08/real-life-tardis-falling-into-disrepair/
x Hannah

starcross

Sep 26, 2009, 10:42 am #34 Last Edit: Feb 05, 2010, 05:40 pm by scarfwearer
Its surprising no one here has posted any pictures of the current condition of the box. The whole rear right post has crumbled away. Most of the cap section that was rotting away years ago probably caused it.

Anyway I did some digging and found a Facebook group on this and one of their members went out and took a bunch of photos. I reposted basically every photo I've found on the newport box to my flickr account. Most of them now I see came from here maybe one or two different. If your not keen to have your photos reposted let me know I'll take them down, its more for ease of reference anyway.

Check it out. <http://www.flickr.com/photos/etas/3954242407>


In any case, given its advanced decay I worry they'll have to rebuild it instead of repair it.
I still would like to blueprint this Box. I'd go measure it myself if I wasn't stuck in Canada. Not much to it though really looking at it, I'll have a go at preliminary sketches and see what happens.

~Starcross

chriskingbees

Sep 26, 2009, 02:13 pm #35 Last Edit: Feb 05, 2010, 05:40 pm by scarfwearer
Hi Starcross
I hope you don't mind, but I've taken the liberty posting one of your pictures on our sister forum, this one:

Newporttragedy.jpg

It really does show the "State of Decay" poor old Newport box finds itself in.

KB

PS If you didn't know, I'm Robert_punk's dad, now you know where he get's it from ;D


starcross

Sep 26, 2009, 10:09 pm #36 Last Edit: Feb 05, 2010, 05:40 pm by scarfwearer
Quote from: chriskingbees on Sep 26, 2009, 02:13 pmHi Starcross
I hope you don't mind, but I've taken the liberty posting one of your pictures on our sister forum, this one:


I didn't know there was a sister forum, and I don't mind. The photos aren't mine personally, just reposts.
Anyway really only found this place a few days ago. Its a real treasure trove of information, its too bad about all the missing linked stuff. Still disappointed I missed all the police post reference material for my build. So far only the A3 plans turned up...

Quote from: chriskingbees on Sep 26, 2009, 02:13 pm
PS If you didn't know, I'm Robert_punk's dad, now you know where he get's it from ;D


So your the man who built the Full scale Metropolitan Mark 2 eh?
Its a wonderful box, I dare not build one for fear of where I'd put it. My own dad is keen to build one though! However my Mum would never let him get away with it I think. I'll stick to my Police Post Project, at least it fits in my house.

Anyway as mentioned I had a go at preliminary blueprints.
All measurements are rubbish as I don't have a single one. That is why not one measurement appears on this sketch. I'm not even certain of the Lantern measurements. Its taken from a previous effort for my Digital Preservation Project on a PA150 Police Post. It just happens that outside the Metropolitan Police everyone seems to have used the same lantern for their boxes. As well as the same telephone door, the PA150 Post, the Glasgow Boxes, to name a few.

I hope this helps fill in gaps in the knowledge of this box before it disappears. I know people are confident that it will be fixed but you can't guarantee that it can be. It might crumble to nothing if they touch it at all.

Scarfwearer

Sep 26, 2009, 10:27 pm #37 Last Edit: Feb 05, 2010, 05:40 pm by scarfwearer
I live only an hour or so from this box, and I've been in touch with someone at Newport City Council this summer: apparently they're trying to do something about the state of it. It is a listed building (which means that in theory it is protected - specifically, it's on the Buildings At Risk (BAR) register).
I'd go measure it, but now there's a fence around it that would be difficult.

Incidentally, the graffiti on the back of the box is new - it wasn't there in the photo I took a year ago. It and the missing post have both occurred in the last 12 months...

Crispin

starcross

Sep 27, 2009, 03:24 pm #38 Last Edit: Feb 05, 2010, 05:40 pm by scarfwearer
Hello everyone,
I'm back again with yet another set of drawings. I wasn't happy leaving them where they were in the first preliminary round so I finished them off as best I could.
New in this revision are the Air vents, side panel Glass shading, the telephone door sign based off on Edinburgh photos, an internal layout and cut section, and a 6 foot tall Police Officer.
I admit the officer is a bit more flash than I wanted but still it gives the box a recognizable scale. In fact if you printed it out based only on the man you could in theory scale it to the size of say a Doctor who action figure and make a model.

These links are to my flickr account for Revision 0 in high resolution 600 DPI images. They will print to any scale legibly I should hope.
High Res - Side Elevation
High Res - Front Elevation
High Res - Cut section / Internal Layout
High Res - Telephone Door Layout


"I'd go measure it, but now there's a fence around it that would be difficult." -Scarfwearer

Yes the fence surrounding it does make it a pain to pull this off. I've studied the photos, and unless they have secured the fence into the ground the fence could be shifted a little bit to suit. Its only got weights on the corners to hold it down, its not likely they hammered it into the asphalt and concrete. its just to keep kids away from it in case it crumbles again.


Anyway this is how I would approach this measuring problem.

Yes the fence is a bit of a problem. However looking at the photos they don't restrict you for a few inches above the ground. That is enough to confirm everything except the middle details. However one would have to be on flat on the ground  to do it so a warm sunny day might be nice. 

For the middle bits I would require, two people, a heavy metal tape measure, and a stick with a magnet on the end. The tape measure can be fed through the gaps in the fence, the stick holds the end where it needs to be with magnetism. The second person bends the tape measure flush to the box in the right position and applies enough pressure to hold it there.
Then photos can be taken by a third person where needed to get a perfect in line measurement. This creates not only a record of the measurement, but also its own documentation and reference material for later study.

The taller bits would require a step ladder or a back of a pick-up truck to stand in. Not sure how plausible either of those are without attracting the wrong sort of attention though. Either way the top is free from the fence obstruction in the front right corner. This is enough to confirm the vent positions and the roof step widths and heights etc...

The very top section of the roof would be the hardest to confirm. I would measure the incline to the flat under the lamp. The width of that section would be easy to measure, and it would be basic trig to figure out the rest. With a base and the hypotenuse measurement solving for height should be simple math.

The lamp, well short of climbing up there and taking circumference measurements it wouldn't be practical to do.
Beside there are easier places to get those measurement like at one of the PA150 Police Posts. There are three readily available in Museums, Avoncroft, Amberley, and Kent.

Well anyway that would be how I would do it. As with all plans adjustments on the fly are probably going to be required. It took longer to write all that out then the idea itself.
Would it work? Who knows I've never done it like that before but it seems plausible.

If you give it a shot let me know how it turned out!

~Starcross

Scarfwearer

Sep 27, 2009, 09:07 pm #39 Last Edit: Feb 05, 2010, 05:41 pm by scarfwearer
Quote from: starcross on Sep 27, 2009, 03:24 pm"I'd go measure it, but now there's a fence around it that would be difficult." -Scarfwearer

LOL! I knew I'd regret saying that! ::) Newport's an hour's drive from where I am, and not somewhere I get near often, but I may be able to manufacture an excuse to drive by there before too long. I have a good tape measure that I could stick through the fence, so I'll see what I can do. With a bit of luck someonse who lives closer will get to it soon and save me the trip. Watch this space...

Crispin

starcross

Sep 28, 2009, 05:47 am #40 Last Edit: Feb 05, 2010, 05:41 pm by scarfwearer
Quote from: scarfwearer on Sep 27, 2009, 09:07 pm
LOL! I knew I'd regret saying that!


Yeah I laughed too when I saw I wrote two screens worth. I can't help it I'm new and still over enthusiastic!
To be honest if I were in the UK I would be there doing everything I wrote. Mind you if the fence weren't there I'd be at it with a set of calipers.

Quote from: scarfwearer on Sep 27, 2009, 09:07 pmWith a bit of luck someone who lives closer will get to it soon and save me the trip. Watch this space...


Well I'm hoping that having the diagrams I made available someone will get out there eventually. The thing that most people get stopped at is the diagrams. I've got no trouble with that as I do drafting professionally, so a Saturday special later and that's half the problem solved.

Now a person need only take a measurement and add it the diagram. Eventually, if there are enough interested people, the diagram will get filled out over time. The we all get both documentation and increase the knowledge about surviving Police Boxes.

I wish old photographs of the Box in its original condition would turn up. It would be interesting to see how close I got it. I went off the comment the window sections looked like a telephone kiosk door. I have an old small blurry image of the interior but its so hard to tell if all the sides looked the same or if the pattern of windows is correct. I'd say my diagrams are 20% real and 80% imagination at this point.

Scarfwearer

Oct 03, 2009, 03:04 pm #41 Last Edit: Feb 05, 2010, 05:42 pm by scarfwearer
I found an excuse to drive to Newport today, so I stopped by the police box there with a tape measure, StarCross's diagram and a step stool. Here is that diagram annotated with the measurements I took:
measurements.png

The diagonal measurement of 28.5" is along the sloping edge, which is the diagonal when seen in plan view. Doing the math, the slope height looks like 5.5" to 6". The base is covered to ground level on one side, and considerably higher on the other, but I didn't get a measurment for that.

Oh, and that top measurement should be 8" - not 5". I didn't notice that until the pic was already uploaded. :(

Crispin

starcross

Oct 04, 2009, 06:41 am #42 Last Edit: Feb 05, 2010, 05:42 pm by scarfwearer
Quote from: scarfwearer on Oct 03, 2009, 03:04 pmI found an excuse to drive to Newport today.


Thank you so much for taking the time to go!

I have to say I ran the numbers against my diagram as drawn. I was pretty good on some and way out in others. My diagram is a bit wide by about 6-8" I think.

Anyway I am so pleased to have it gotten so close to things I've never seen. Usually I do this after I've seen the real object for a bit, and usually with at least one reference measurement or two to go on. 


Most of the confirmed measurements fit give or take an inch or two. But I can't for the life of me make that roof slope of 28.5" work. I keep getting a rise of 9.5" as opposed to the 5" I imagined it to be. I thought it to be about 20 to 24" max on the slope? Maybe I'm just way too tired and/or and my computer lies....

Looking at it 8" seems so small for the corner post and the vertical bar to be crammed into. I think i had it at 12" spread 4",5",3". Those measurements weren't marked so I'll have to guess at 3",3",2"?

I'm interested in the lantern, did you actually manage to measure it?
Because I did actually draft the very base of it at 5" purely on guess work at the time for a PA150 Police Post.
Was 8" for the diamond grill or the bell on top?

Really nifty stuff, I really enjoyed messing with the new measurements. I'll make an updated Diagram with the new details soon.

~Starcross

TG

Oct 04, 2009, 09:42 am #43 Last Edit: Feb 05, 2010, 05:42 pm by scarfwearer
Quote from: scarfwearer on Oct 03, 2009, 03:04 pmI found an excuse to drive to Newport today, so I stopped by the police box there with a tape measure


Brilliant to get actual measurements of the poor old Newport box Crispin!
the plans look great.
Was there a problem fence or shouldn't we ask?

Scarfwearer

Oct 04, 2009, 11:20 am #44 Last Edit: Feb 05, 2010, 05:42 pm by scarfwearer
Quote from: starcross on Oct 04, 2009, 06:41 am

Thank you so much for taking the time to go!

I'm glad to help someone making a real effort to document a little piece of police box history. As far as I know this is the last of its kind...

I stuck the end of the ruler right against the 5" tube of the light fitting across the diagonal, which is probably throwing your calculations off. I get a slope height of 5.5", which I think is what you originally estimated. I'll step through my workings if you need it.


I realise now that I marked the 36" measurement in the wrong place on the diagram - sorry about that: it should include the adjacent lines.

Yes, the 8" is the width of the diamond grill, which was as far up as I could reach on the step stool. That and the 5" diameter of the supporting tube were the only measurements I managed on the lamp.

Quote from: starcross on Oct 04, 2009, 06:41 am
Really nifty stuff, I really enjoyed messing with the new measurements. I'll make an updated Diagram with the new details soon.

I'll look forward to it. Here's a corrected diagram with that 36" width measurement in the right place and the diamond grill measurement fixed.
measurements2.png

Crispin