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1:1 Hartnell/Troughton Console Build

Started by markofrani, Apr 16, 2016, 07:48 am

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Other Dave

Quote from: galacticprobe on May 13, 2016, 04:32 am
It's not really all that complicated, Jonathan

Dino.


Like Tony and others, my eyes glaze over when looking at electronic diagrams, but on the other hand, I'm tired of not knowing this stuff!

I found a place online that has lots of electronic things (that also takes PayPal  :))  So searching for the various parts listed, I came up with this shopping list.  But before I buy, I need to know if they are the right parts or not.

With many of these, there were dozens of varieties listed, so there's no way for someone like me to know if it's right or not.  Could you or someone with expertise take a look at these links for me?

555 TIMER - Price: $0.39
http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&productId=904085&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&CID=GOOG&gclid=CM6P-I_7oM4CFYMDaQodYtEO2w

4017 Decade Counter $0.45
http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10001_10001_45891_-1

10 panel-mount LEDs $10.90
http://www.jameco.com/z/UT2U1W-H113-R801-1739-White-T1-3-4-Panel-Mount-LED_2158936.html

Resistor 560 Ohm - bag of 10 for $0.10
http://www.jameco.com/z/CF1-4W561JRC-Resistor-Carbon-Film-560-Ohm-1-4-Watt-5-In-Bags-of-10-and-100-_690806.html

Resistor 2K Ohm bag of 10 for $0.10
http://www.jameco.com/z/CF1-4W202JRC-Resistor-Carbon-Film-2k-Ohm-1-4-Watt-5-In-Bags-of-10-and-100-_690937.html

Resistor 20K Pot, Panel Mount  $9.95
http://www.jameco.com/z/RV4NAYSD203A-Clarostat-Honeywell-Resistor-Pot-20k-Ohm-10-2-Watt-6-35mm-Panel-Mount_241656.html

Resistor 1K Ohm bag of 10 for $0.10
http://www.jameco.com/z/CF1-4W102JRC-Resistor-Carbon-Film-1k-Ohm-1-4-Watt-5-In-Bags-of-10-and-100-_690865.html

Capacitor 100 nF   $0.19
http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10001_10001_15270_-1

100uF electrolytic capacitor Price:??
There are 45 listed here. Which is the one to get??
http://www.jameco.com/shop/StoreCatalogDrillDownView?langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&freeText=100uF%20electrolytic%20capacitor&search_type=jamecoall

And then I assume some sort of breadboard or circuit board? But there where dozens listed. Don't know which to get.

Actually, if you wanted to start a new topic with step-by-step instructions, I think a lot of people would be interested.  :D

- Other Dave

galacticprobe

Aug 02, 2016, 03:36 pm #61 Last Edit: Aug 02, 2016, 05:23 pm by galacticprobe
Quote from: dlindsley on Aug 01, 2016, 08:41 pm
Like Tony and others, my eyes glaze over when looking at electronic diagrams,...

Okay, everyone; sit back and prepare for "Electronics 101.5". (I've done "Electronics 101" before, and this one isn't quite up to "102", but it is somewhere in between.)

Some diagrams are quite complex, even an old "CB" radio can be tricky if you're not familiar with electronics. Simpler circuits, like a lamp flasher, or even "chase lights", aren't all that hard of one just takes one's time, and goes wire by wire. Don't let the entire circuit overwhelm you - which it easily can - by how it looks as a whole. It's like reading a road map; take things one turn at a time and it's not all that bad.

Quote from: dlindsley on Aug 01, 2016, 08:41 pm
but on the other hand, I'm tired of not knowing this stuff!

There are some instructions on YouTube that will help you learn some about electronics, but it is the ultimate basics, which is really all one needs to know for simpler circuits like the lamp flasher or a chase lights circuit. (There is also the "Instructables" site, but that one sometimes confuses me; maybe it's because it's geared towards the novice rather than the 31-year electronics veteran, but it's still worth a look.)

Quote from: dlindsley on Aug 01, 2016, 08:41 pm
I found a place online that has lots of electronic things (that also takes PayPal  :))  So searching for the various parts listed, I came up with this shopping list.  But before I buy, I need to know if they are the right parts or not.

Not a problem. As the saying goes, help is only a question away... or something like that.

Quote from: dlindsley on Aug 01, 2016, 08:41 pm
With many of these, there were dozens of varieties listed, so there's no way for someone like me to know if it's right or not.  Could you or someone with expertise take a look at these links for me?

Again, like with the road map analogy, don't let the wide variety overwhelm you. Look for the "electronic value" of the component rather than at the huge selection. (If you need a blue shirt, you go into a store and look through all of the hundreds of shirts until you find the blue ones, and then you look through the blue ones until you find the right color you need.)

It's the same with electronic components. If you need a 500 Ohm 1/4 Watt resistor, don't get overwhelmed because there are 30 or 40 different 500 Ohm 1/4 Watt resistors. Ignore the "+/-10%" or "5%"; that's only how close the tolerance is with the resistance. What it means is that your 500 Ohm resistor can vary between 450 Ohms and 550 Ohms if the tolerance is 10% (10% of what the resistance is supposed to be). Most resistors, even with 10% tolerance, are pretty much on the mark, so a 500 Ohm 10% resistor could still be exactly 500 Ohms. What you need to look for is a resistor with the correct "Ohms" value first. That is really important because it's the resistance that helps regulate how the circuit is going to work: how it will flash, how fast, how bright it lets the LED shine, etc.

The wattage is just as important as the resistance value, though. Larger wattage resistors can handle more current because they're physically larger and can deal with the heat that builds up due to resistance. So if the circuit calls for a 500 Ohm 1/2 Watt resistor, that's what to look for, and not a 1/4 Watt. (Always read the component's Specifications.)

So with that, let's get started:

Quote from: dlindsley on Aug 01, 2016, 08:41 pm
555 TIMER - Price: $0.39

A 555 Timer Chip is a 555 Timer Chip. It doesn't matter if it's an NE555 or NE555P, etc. It's a "clock chip", meaning it puts out a steady set of pulses of +-+-+-. The speed at which it puts those out depends on the other components around it. It can also be configured in other ways, but for now the clock pulses is what we need. So in short, any 555 Timer will do. They're reliable, and practically bulletproof.

Quote from: dlindsley on Aug 01, 2016, 08:41 pm
4017 Decade Counter $0.45

Again, like the 555 Timer, a 4017 Decade Counter is a 4017 Decade Counter. It takes each clock pulse from the 555 chip as an input, and with each pulse the 4017 will move its output to the next pin in sequence. (Think of it this way: you're the 4017 decade Counter and your friend is the 555 Timer. Every time your friend moves your right arm - your "input" - up and down, your left arm - your "output" - presses on "Button 1", and then "Button 2"; each time your output moves to the next "button" that light will light and the previous one will go out. Once you get to "10", you simply move your left arm "output" back to the beginning and recycle the process.)

And I hope that made sense.

The 4017 is another reliable chip and practically bulletproof.

Quote from: dlindsley on Aug 01, 2016, 08:41 pm
10 panel-mount LEDs $10.90

LEDs can be a little trickier. Some like this one come with a mount already attached so all you need to do is drill a small hole and snap the mount and LED in place. Some are just plain LEDs and you need a separate mount or socket for them. With this one, it shouldn't make a difference if the LED is bright enough. Here most of the LED is inside the "panel mount" so the light is going to come out of the top only: more directed, so it may not be as bright. It's hard to tell with the photo they've posted of the thing. The full dome of the LED is sticking out of the mount, so it should be fine as that is where most of the light from the LED comes from: the dome.

LEDs also need a "ballast resistor" because an LED is basically a short circuit when it's running (lit up), and without the ballast resistor the LED will burn out quickly and the "short" could damage the other components of the circuit.

Quote from: dlindsley on Aug 01, 2016, 08:41 pm
Resistor 560 Ohm - bag of 10 for $0.10

Resistor 2K Ohm bag of 10 for $0.10

Resistor 20K Pot, Panel Mount  $9.95

Resistor 1K Ohm bag of 10 for $0.10

Resistors are "passive" components. They're only there to act as "bottlenecks" for the current flow. By slowing the current flow they build up voltage, and that voltage level is what determines how the circuit runs: how fast the 555 Timer will "clock" its output pulses, how fast the 4017 will "chase" its lights, how bright an LED will be, etc.

The "fixed" resistors are a set value; that's what to look for, as well as the wattage.

The "Pot" (potentiometer, a.k.a. variable resistor) is like the volume control knob on your car radio - actually it is. You can adjust the resistance value from 0 (zero) Ohms (max. volume), to whatever the maximum value of the resistor is (min. volume). In this case it's the max. resistance value that's given, and that's what to look for (again along with wattage).

A Panel Mount pot like this 20k Ohm one (the 20k meaning 20 kilo-Ohm, or 20,000 Ohms) is fine if you're planning to have this pot mounted as a control knob. You can vary it by turning the knob and thereby control the speed of the chase lights, or the brightness of a light, or the volume of a speaker. If you need a pot to adjust something for a set speed or the like and need it mounted on the board with the rest of the circuit's components, then I would look for a "board mount" pot. Otherwise, this would work just fine.

One thing to keep in mind with resistors: using a higher wattage resistor is just fine if you need to - say if the circuit says to use a 500 Ohm 1/4 Watt resistor and all you can find is a 500 Ohm 1/2 Watt, by all means use the 1/2 Watt. The one thing you don't want to do is go lower with the wattage (i.e. never use a 1/4 Watt when the circuit calls for a 1/2 Watt; the heat build-up will burn out the smaller resistor, and aside from damage to the circuit, nothing smells worst than a burnt resistor!).

Those resistors will do just fine. Again, read the Specifications to see what the wattage is.

Quote from: dlindsley on Aug 01, 2016, 08:41 pm
Capacitor 100 nF   $0.19

Like resistors, capacitors are passive components that regulate how the circuit works. The important things to look for (again in the Specifications) are the capacitance (in Farads - or more like milli or micro farads), and the "working voltage", which is the maximum voltage the cap can take before it either burns or goes "POP!" like a small firecracker. Also like with resistors, the capacitance value is important (in the one above it's 100 nF - or "nano" Farads, so it's a really small cap), and you can use a cap that has a higher working voltage than what's called for (i.e. if the circuit calls for a 100 nF 12 Volt cap, you can use a 100 nF 24 Volt cap with no problem; you just can't use a 100 nF 6 Volt cap). If the circuit doesn't specify the voltage on the cap, then rule of thumb is look at the power supply voltage you're working with, and keep the cap's working voltage higher than that.

Quote from: dlindsley on Aug 01, 2016, 08:41 pm
100uF electrolytic capacitor Price:??
There are 45 listed here. Which is the one to get??

Again, look at the Specs for the cap: F value and working voltage. In this case you've got the F value right, so you're good there. Next look at the circuit for the power supply voltage. For the Chase Lights circuit in this thread, the power supply is 5-12 volts. So you want a cap with a voltage 12 volts or higher, but you don't need a cap with a working voltage of 250 volts, or even 50 volts. Even 25 Volts would be overkill, but not unreasonable. I did see at least one cap listed with 16 Volts, which would be fine since the power supply will never go above 12 volts.

The site lets you sort by Voltage (just click on the "Filter" header in the listing and select "Voltage" to sort things. There are five 16-Volt caps listed. (Ignore the last one; those are way too small; you'll want one of the first four.) There is only one 25 Volt cap, which is also a good choice. Any of the 16- or the 25-Volt caps will work.

One really important thing to remember about electrolytic caps is that they are polarized: meaning that you have to connect the + side to the + side of the circuit (as shown on the diagram), and of course the - side to the - side. In this case, of you reverse the positive and negative leads, the cap will explode. Not a huge deal with caps this small - they'll blow like a firecracker - but when you start getting into caps that are the size of, say, the cardboard core of a toilet paper role, they go off like a grenade. (I saw one of those lift a 20-lb transceiver two feet off of a workbench and launch it about 18 feet into the middle of the lab where the guy was working on it!)

So pay close attention to the markings on the electrolytic cap when you're wiring it in. Like I say, one this small would only blow like a firecracker if you reversed the polarity, but no one needs to have that happen.

Quote from: dlindsley on Aug 01, 2016, 08:41 pm
And then I assume some sort of breadboard or circuit board? But there where dozens listed. Don't know which to get.

Breadboards are for temporary wiring and testing to see if and how the circuit will work before you go soldering everything into place. The kind of circuit board you would want is the kind that has lots of holes in it, with little copper or tinned rings on one side. This will allow you to solder in the components, and then use small wire to solder the components together. The Chase Lights circuit is a small one, but you can use a larger board so you have more room to work; it will also help with air flow around the components to help them stay cool - not that this circuit will build up much heat. (I doubt it would get very warm at all.)

Quote from: dlindsley on Aug 01, 2016, 08:41 pm
Actually, if you wanted to start a new topic with step-by-step instructions, I think a lot of people would be interested.  :D

The only problem with that is I don't have the equipment to use for such a tutorial. (Retired electronics tech, so when I left the military I also left the nice lab I had to play with... not to mention all the components I could get my hands on. I should have grabbed things when I had the chance!)

However, there are many on YouTube if you search for "Basic Soldering", or even "Chase Light Circuit". Some are easier to follow than others, and some may find a video easier than a video someone else finds. So that would be the best way to go. And with the YouTube videos you can pause and go back; I wouldn't be able to go that here if I did have the equipment (and I would only be adding another video to the multitude already on YouTube if I could make and upload one).

Okay, I've blithered on for a while now and hopefully I've covered everything sufficiently (and my back is starting to ache from sitting for so long), but I hope this is helpful for a lot of people. (And you had some great questions there, "Other Dave". I hope I made things a little - make that a lot easier for you.)

Dino.
"What's wrong with being childish?! I like being childish." -3rd Doctor, "Terror of the Autons"

jorwick


Hey Dino,  maybe its time to start a "How do I build a circuit that does ..."  section, and you can sticky that post right to the top.

galacticprobe

Aug 03, 2016, 07:29 pm #63 Last Edit: Aug 03, 2016, 07:44 pm by galacticprobe
Well, only the Moderators can make "sticky" posts, though if I asked them to make one sticky they would. (There is one "sticky" post already here, http://tardisbuilders.com/index.php?topic=616.135, dealing with the flashing lamp on the TARDIS roof.) But the problem is, I'm an electronics technician, not an electronics engineer; I can build circuits and repair them when they break if I have a schematic diagram, but I'm rubbish when it comes to designing circuits. (That's what engineers do.) I might be able to make small modifications to existing circuits depending on what the modification is (like replacing a fixed resistor "here" with a pot to make it easier to vary the speed or fade of a flashing or chasing lights, or adding a transistor so you can replace an LED with a light bulb), but beyond that, I can talk people through building steps, and how to wire components together. But there are certain aspects of electronics that need more visual aid for instruction that I can put here - like how to solder something, or use a soldering iron and solder.

Things like that can be found on YouTube - quite a few videos of that, in fact. Me trying to add another video into that mix would be redundant. I'm also sticking to the basics because I haven't taught electronics since 1989, and haven't worked on anything to speak of since my back gave out and I was waiting for my military retirement, and all that mess started in 2010. (I did help my son repair his N-64 game system when the voltage regulator failed, but he had to borrow soldering equipment from a friend for that.) So I'm a little rusty in places, and simple circuits like the lamp flasher in another thread and these Chase Lights are what I'm trying to stick with. I know I can help people through that.

So you do have a great idea, but the tutorials are already out there, and I'm more of a coach to help people that have questions these days. (I hope this make sense.)

Dino.
"What's wrong with being childish?! I like being childish." -3rd Doctor, "Terror of the Autons"

jorwick

Quote from: galacticprobe on Aug 03, 2016, 07:29 pm

So you do have a great idea, but the tutorials are already out there, and I'm more of a coach to help people that have questions these days. (I hope this make sense.)



If the section  ends up being nothing but links to the tutorial videos, and a couple of "Dino explains basic components" sticky posts , is that  a bad thing? 

galacticprobe

Aug 05, 2016, 07:34 pm #65 Last Edit: Aug 05, 2016, 07:34 pm by galacticprobe
The links I can look into. As for the "Dino explains...", there are already several of those in other threads, some of which are already "stickied". I suppose I could create a separate thread and make duplicate posts for consolidation purposes, but it would take a while to track all of those posts down.

It can happen, but it won't be overnight; it could be in Draft Mode for a few weeks. (I've got a lot of posts to search through!)

Dino.
"What's wrong with being childish?! I like being childish." -3rd Doctor, "Terror of the Autons"

13drwho

Dino's post is great, but I disagree with one thing. On a capacitor I was taught to always use double the expected voltage MINIMUM. So if you are running on five volts at least use 10volt capacitors. The difference in size and price is so tiny that it's worth it for safety margin. This is especially important if you are using AC power to create DC power. You can get fast transients (a momentary voltage spike above the regulated voltage) that will damage or pop the capacitor. The other reason is that if you're operating a component at it's maximum rating you reduce the lifetime of the part.

If you found the circuit on the internet with values most likely the person who designed it already included a healthy safety margin, so order what they recommend. It's just stuff to consider if you design your own circuits.

galacticprobe

Aug 07, 2016, 04:41 am #67 Last Edit: Aug 07, 2016, 05:24 am by galacticprobe
Quote from: 13drwho on Aug 06, 2016, 02:50 am
...I disagree with one thing. On a capacitor I was taught to always use double the expected voltage MINIMUM. So if you are running on five volts at least use 10volt capacitors. The difference in size and price is so tiny that it's worth it for safety margin.

Using a cap with a working voltage that's double of what it's going to be used in is a bit of overkill depending on its purpose. Certainly you wouldn't want to use a 6-volt cap on a 5-volt circuit; that's just a little too close. Using a 16-volt cap on a 12-volt circuit is well within the safety margin because if that voltage starts rising above the 12 volts, other things (like IC Chips and Transistors, and the voltage regulator) are going to blow before the caps will (especially the voltage regulator). The only place I've ever seen caps with double the working voltage (or more) used was when they were in power supplies to filter out the "ripple" after the conversion from AC to DC, and that was because they were before the voltage regulator; but those were "filter caps", which are different than "biasing" caps that are used to control things like clock speeds or lamp/LED fading/flashing, all of which takes place after the regulator.

Quote from: 13drwho on Aug 06, 2016, 02:50 am
This is especially important if you are using AC power to create DC power. You can get fast transients (a momentary voltage spike above the regulated voltage) that will damage or pop the capacitor.

Again this is true if you're still in the power supply and before the voltage regulator. Any spikes that get passed the filter caps will get knocked down by the voltage regulator - that's the whole purpose of the regulator; if the output from the DC side of the rectifier rises above the intended voltage (say +12 Volts, and it spikes up to +15 Volts), that voltage regulator is going to do what it's intended to do and knock that back down to +12 Volts. The circuit on the output side of the regulator will never notice the spike. If the spike is large enough to blow the regulator, then nothing will get through and the circuit will go dead because you'll have no voltage into it. You'll still have voltage on the input side of the regulator (provided no input fuses have popped), but you'll have 0 (zero) volts on the output side of the regulator and even of there is 18 volts sitting on the regulator's input, with 0 volts on the output side there will be nothing anywhere in the circuit.

Quote from: 13drwho on Aug 06, 2016, 02:50 am
The other reason is that if you're operating a component at it's maximum rating you reduce the lifetime of the part.

This is true when dealing with "active" components like IC Chips, transistors, MOSFETS and the like. Caps and resistors are "passive" components and are more resilient. Granted running a 1/2 watt resistor at its max of 1/2 watts will make it heat up and eventually break down and fail (even though that's the wattage it's rated for), but using a 16-volt cap in a 12-volt circuit isn't going to harm the cap... unless it's an electrolytic cap and you put in with the polarity reversed.

And remember, I did say you could go higher, but not lower, when it came to a cap's working voltage. (I would definitely not use a 12-volt cap in a 12-volt circuit; that's even "too closer" than the example above of the 6-volt cap in a 5-volt circuit!)

Quote from: 13drwho on Aug 06, 2016, 02:50 am
If you found the circuit on the internet with values most likely the person who designed it already included a healthy safety margin, so order what they recommend. It's just stuff to consider if you design your own circuits.

This is true enough, especially if the person designing the circuit has some electronics engineering background. However most of the simple circuits that I've seen on line (most, not all) like the Chase Lights and Lamp Flasher circuits, have been reposts of circuits that are found in basic booklets like the 555 Timer Cookbook. (If you can find one of those you'll be surprised at the world of simple circuits that are available for TARDIS console controls, and are easy to build.)

There are other books out there with basic circuits for electronics experimenters. I would suggest perusing your local library to see what they've got, and once you find one of those books that you find easy to follow and has the circuits that would suit your needs, get all of the info from the book cover (title, author, ISBN, etc.) and then hunt it down for your home library. (I used to have several, but most were lost in military moves. :P)

Dino.
"What's wrong with being childish?! I like being childish." -3rd Doctor, "Terror of the Autons"

Other Dave

Thanks Dino and 13drwho !  I'm going parts shopping!  Wish me luck!  (Maybe I'll document my journey)

markofrani

Not much progress on the build, however I did buy these on Ebay which look pretty close to the grab rails which I believe were added to the console during 'Enemy Of the World/ Web Of Fear'. With a coat of spray paint I think they look a pretty good match...

EOTW_WOF.jpg

Inferno.jpg

DoorPull.jpgDoorPullFinish.jpg

galacticprobe

Aug 11, 2016, 08:56 am #70 Last Edit: Aug 11, 2016, 08:56 am by galacticprobe
Jonathan, you're right; those were added to the console during "The Enemy of the World" so when Salamander made the TARDIS take off without closing the doors and got himself blown out into space, the Doctor and Victoria would have something to hang on to until Jamie could get to the console and close the doors. Those handles stayed there for the rest of the console's serviceable life.

The ones you've got look pretty spot on. If those shiny ones are yours already painted, you've done a grand job of it! If you haven't painted them yet, you might want to consider having them re-chromed. There are places that do re-chroming. Depending on how much that would cost it might be worth it. Then they would be shiny chrome for years to come, and you wouldn't have to worry about the paint rubbing off and needing a touch-up.

Dino.
"What's wrong with being childish?! I like being childish." -3rd Doctor, "Terror of the Autons"

Greenlord

Loving the attention to detail on this build, all those elements look absolutely beautiful, high standard fabrication here. Particularly love the symbolic indicator lamps and the iconic yellow and red lever switches.
All the elements look so genuine -can't wait to see more, keep going  :)

fivefingeredstyre

You know, I'd never noticed the handles were angled before.

I always look forward to updates on this, keep up the good work :)

KIT-KAT

Any updates on this build? It looks fantastic
No, not the mind probe!

karsthotep

why have I not seen this build thread before.   Glad you bumped it.   Motivational for sure.

I want notes, lists and answers by the time I finish this here Juicy-a-Box! WARNING: I am Thirst-ay! And it is Fruit Punch! And it is Delicious!"