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Bishopsgate / Acorn Street / Pindar Street

Started by starcross, Apr 06, 2016, 05:51 am

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starcross

Apr 06, 2016, 05:51 am Last Edit: Apr 06, 2016, 05:58 am by starcross
This is clearly a picture of Acorn Street with a Ambulance Post No.1 on the pavement.
The sign up the way is Pindar street, no idea what the second sign below is.  

Source: Charles Goss' Bishopsgate Photographs (1912-ish)
Ambulance Post No.1 (Bishopsgate-Without-West-Side-2) - Crop.jpg
Ambulance Post No.1 (Bishopsgate-Without-West-Side-2).jpg

I can't find Acorn Street on the OS maps, as it apparently was swallowed up by Liverpool Station.
However in 1916 Pindar Street does appear on the Maps.

Source: OS Map 1916 Scale=1:2500
CoL 05 - Pindar - Acorn Street - 1916.jpg

The only conclusion I can find given the relative locations of #5 on the Survey map is that a Post of some kind must have sat in front of the station for some time. Acorn was swallowed up by the station and Pindar is the only street to Survive in that block.

Where does that leave posts after the street was swallowed by the station?
Well only additional photos of Liverpool station will answer that, further research is needed.

hb88banzai

Apr 06, 2016, 10:35 am #1 Last Edit: Apr 06, 2016, 01:39 pm by hb88banzai
Perhaps I can be of some assistance.

First though, here's a blowup of the above Ambulance Post No. 1 for those of us with aging eyes --

Ambulance Post No.1 (Bishopsgate-Without-West-Side-2)-Blowup.JPG

A very nice and unusual view of one - great find!


Your deductions were correct in that Acorn Street was affected by the expansion of Liverpool Street Station, but even after the Station achieved its largest extent the street still held on for a bit in vestigial form until the widening of Bishopsgate Street some time between 1896 and 1916.

Here are closer views of some large scale OS map extracts to illustrate, noting that the corner in the photo is near the centre of each extract:

1875 OS Map Extract, 1:1056 Scale --

CoL 5--Bishopsgate-Pindar Street--OS Map Extract (1875--1-1056).JPG

Acorn Street is clearly visible below "Skinner Street", which was later renamed "Pindar Street", and a much smaller area of track visible all the way on the left.


1896 Map Extract, 1:1056 Scale --

CoL 5--Bishopsgate-Pindar Street--OS Map Extract (1896--1-1056).JPG

Liverpool Street Station has already been enlarged, and Acorn Street cut down in size as a result.


1915-1916 OS Map Extract, 1:1056 Scale --

CoL 5--Bishopsgate-Pindar Street--OS Map Extract (1915-1916--1-1056).JPG

By 1915-1916 Bishopsgate Street had been widened and many of the buildings removed. Acorn Street is there, but unlabeled and appears to be in the process of being redeveloped. Skinner Street has been renamed to Pindar Street.


1948-1952 OS Map Extract, 1:1250 Scale --

CoL 5--Bishopsgate-Pindar Street--OS Map Extract (1948-1952--1-1250).JPG

Acrorn Street is completely gone with new buildings taking its place.


As you said, the 1939 Survey of City Posts has the marker for CoL 5 centred on about the same location as the old Ambulance Post No. 1, so the later No. 2 & PA3 Posts were likely situated outside "Hugo House", just down from The Kings Arms P.H.

Unfortunately, as you've discovered, no OS map seems to mark this Post in any form, despite maps for the area in the appropriate scales extending at least into the mid-60s. It's always possible it was just removed before the OS was paying attention here and was perhaps never actually a PA3, but frankly it's more likely that the OS just passed it over, as they've done countless times before.

starcross

Apr 06, 2016, 06:01 pm #2 Last Edit: Apr 06, 2016, 08:12 pm by starcross
So I think I found the PA3 version of this Post.

This is supposed to be The King's Arms Pub located on the corner of Pindar Street and Bishopsgate.
Pindar Street is now under a glass monstrosity of a building, so street view hasn't been helpful.

What do you think?

Source: Pub History
SirPau1.gif
SirPau1 - Crop.gif

hb88banzai

Apr 07, 2016, 12:55 am #3 Last Edit: Apr 07, 2016, 01:07 am by hb88banzai
I had looked for aerial views, and this was the best I had found (from 6th September 1947) --

CoL_05--Bisopsgate-PindarSt--(AerialPhoto-SmallFullFrame--06Sep1949)-(EAW026317).jpg

The area in question is near the lower right corner of this view.

A closeup of the corner of Bishopsgate and Pindar Street from the full resolution image --

CoL_05--Bisopsgate-PindarSt--(AerialPhoto-HiResClsoseup--06Sep1949)-(EAW026317).JPG

Not quite good enough to make out the Ambulance Post No. 2 (though there is a suspicious thin dark shape that's casting a shadow against the wall), but seems to confirm that the above photo is indeed of The Kings Arms, so yes, I'd say you've found a view of the PA3 version of this Post.  8)

starcross

 :D Even if that aerial photo isn't quite enough, I'm calling this the first Complete City of London Thread.  :o

Between the two of us we've got all three versions of the Posts spread out over 80 years. That's a better picture than I ever thought we'd get into the life cycle of these Posts. One Photo is amazing, two is nifty, but three is Unbelievable. Especially when you consider that the AP1s were installed around 1910, replaced with AP2s near 1935, which got replaced with PA3s in 1965, to final removal by 1990.

Aldgate is the next candidate for completion I think if we can find the AP1 in that location...

hb88banzai

Apr 07, 2016, 04:32 am #5 Last Edit: Apr 07, 2016, 06:38 am by hb88banzai
Yes, it is very cool indeed.

And actually, I think I've already got another one. I'll try to post it tonight.

hb88banzai

Apr 08, 2016, 06:17 am #6 Last Edit: Apr 08, 2016, 06:53 am by hb88banzai
Took a bit longer than I expected to pull together all of the material, but here's a link to our second Hat Trick:

http://tardisbuilders.com/index.php?topic=3872.msg83180#msg83180

I thought I might have another one involving a Box in the middle instead of a Post, but upon reexamining one of the source films the object I had thought might be an Ambulance Post No. 1 seems too small.


To add support for this one though, here's a blowup of the above crop from the full resolution aerial image of The Kings Arms P.H. --

CoL_05--Bisopsgate-PindarSt--(AerialPhoto-HiResClsoseup--06Sep1949)-(EAW026317)--Blowup.JPG

Sharpened up a bit --

CoL_05--Bisopsgate-PindarSt--(AerialPhoto-HiResClsoseup--06Sep1949)-(EAW026317)--Blowup-sharpened.JPG

It really does look like the dark column against the wall is an Ambulance Post No. 2, doesn't it, but it's positioned here next to the Pub window instead of a couple feet to the south at the property line, as shown in the later photo of the PA3 Post above. It's about the same height as the PA3, which would make it much too tall to be a person standing there.