Hartnell plans available and ready for revision

[ionsith]

I made the roof on mine 44.25 as per Tony's plans, but I didn't think there was an extra step under the roof...
Should I have?

[lespaceplie]

Always keep this reference photo in mind for the roof.

[tony farrell]

Well, on the basis that a (high-definition) picture paints a thousand words... (You'll need to open the image in a new tab and click on the large view with the magnifying glass.)

[Grimusaur]

I suppose this brings me back to a better-worded version of my concern. With the roof at 44.25", bringing the bottom tier out by an apparent 1" from the top tier would create that red area by following the dimensions as given.

However! Judging from the photograph Tony included in his diagram, it almost looks as if the bottom tier of the roof meets the end of the post cap before the quarter round, and extending it that far looks like this from above:



Which seems like it could be more or less correct with the photo Gene's shared, but then you can see part of the inside face of the post cap in that photo that you wouldn't be able to see if the bottom tier met that edge, which brings me right back to irreconcilability!

[tony farrell]

Firstly Will, the plans weren't drawn by me - all I did was add the 44.25" figure to Gene's drawing. In the drawings I've seen, Gene didn't state a width for the roof's top tier just the height of its slope (of course, there might be a drawing that I've not seen).

Secondly, in the screen-grab from Dalek Invasion of Earth, I don't think you can see the inside edge (straight) edge of the post caps - all I think we can see is the inside quadrant. (This - incidentally - would match the way both the Newbery and the TY-J roof sections were constructed and would seem to match the high-definition photo I posted above.)

If we take the overall dimensions of the box as stated by Gene as being correct (which I do), then the square formed by the corner posts is 49.5". The square formed by the outside of the post caps is 47.5" and the square formed by the inside edges of the post caps' quadrants is 45.5".

If you make the roof's top tier a 42" square (the figure you quoted in your message to me) then the gap between it and the inside edge of the quadrants would be 1.75" on all four sides (i.e., 45.5 - 42 = 3.5. 3.5/2 = 1.75). Surely a gap of 1.75" is too big?

If we make the gap 1" on each side, then the roof's top tier becomes a square with sides of 43.5". If we make the gap 0.75", then the roof's top tier becomes a square with sides of 44".

At the end of the day Will, the choice is yours.  

[lespaceplie]

Since Tony's high res photo is later in the props battered life, there's a good chance that surface is off of it's original position. Even though the photo I posted is low res, it implies an approximate depth that's greater. Though unlabeled, the measure should be 44.5 in my drawing. I tend to forget the label things because Corel displays the measure of anything that's clicked on.

[tony farrell]

Since Tony's high res photo is later in the props battered life, there's a good chance that surface is off of it's original position. Even though the photo I posted is low res, it implies an approximate depth that's greater.

Okay - a better picture for you (from Planet of the Giants) which shows that the same thing: This upright panel is flush with the post caps quadrants. Sorry Gene - you've drawn the 'recess' above the sign-boxes too deep; it should be where I've indicated with the red arrow. This, in turn, means that the roof's top tier is bigger than you've drawn it. 



Again, you need to open the picture in a new tab and use the magnifying glass to see it at full size.

T

[ionsith]

Does that make the upright panel flush with the top outer edge of the doors/sides rather than flush with the recesses as it appears to be on the drawing?

[tony farrell]

Assuming Gene (or anyone else) doesn't come up with evidence to the contrary, then yes.  

If everyone is agreeable, I could draw up a new version which shows the correct geometry but this will take a couple of days.

T

[Grimusaur]

But Gene's photo from Dalek Invasion of Earth shows that the panel wasn't flush at the time of that shot, and it's worth noting that Planet of the Giants was filmed after DIoE, immediately after if my dates are correct. Is it at all possible that the prop was assembled differently once it was back in the studio after all the location filming for DIoE? If you squint, it even appears in Tony's picture that the panel on the left side isn't flush with the post cap quadrants.

EDIT:



Enhanced the spot in question just a bit, with some lines to illustrate what I'm seeing.

EDIT EDIT:
And I just realized that could very well just be due to the depth from the quarter round, doh!

PS: Sent you my email in a DM on Twitter Tony! Wasn't sure if you saw yet.

[lespaceplie]

Too bad the depth isn't more pronounced. Looking at photos from the pilot and The Web Planet, it's clear that it's nearly flush with the edge just behind the quarter rounds on the cap. Perhaps it was reinforced. The shot from DIoE seems to show a ply on the edge.

[tony farrell]

Planet of the Giants was recorded between 21/8/64 and 15/9/64 and DoIE entered the studio on 21/9/64 (though there was 3 days location filming in late August).

The Tardis was - at this stage - a once-piece prop (well, apart from the lamp housing which was detachable). If, Will, you extend your green line, it matches the 'inside' edge of the quadrant on the box's side panels as well.  

T

[Grimusaur]

Gah! Had my months mixed up there!

And I noticed that, that's what prompted the EDIT EDIT on my post!

I'm still befuddled by the visible quadrant in the DIoE photo though.

[tony farrell]

No worries Will.

Here's an additional picture from DIoE which shows the rear of the Tardis and the panel is again flush with the post cap quadrants. This does seem to indicate that the depth was the same on all sides and not as the result of some-sort-of reinforcement/addition.



T

[Volpone]

This is a fascinating thread--but I'm utterly terrified to read it, because the 63-66 Barachaki is what I based my build on.  I just know I'll find something in here that will make me regret the choices I made.   In fact the revelation on how everything above the POLICE BOX signs already does, a bit.  If I'd pushed my roof out a bit more it would have helped with water intrusion.  Hmmm...