Hartnell plans available and ready for revision

[tony farrell]

Oh, well spotted! Corrected. 

T

[galacticprobe]

A 'guesstimate', Dino, is defined as an estimate made using inadequate or incomplete information, or as an estimate arrived at by guesswork. I had hoped that I'd clearly explained my methodology and also that the high-definition photos I've shared could be considered as the best source material now available.

You always do, Tony, and no offence was intended. I only used the term in relation to the St. John logo because, as you noticed, the edges of it are curling away from the box. Since those edges are not perfectly flat, and also as you mentioned the logo is not symmetrical because of the curled edges:

The St John Ambulance badge's diameter appears to be fractionally less than the 4.5 inches previously thought. It is much closer to 4.33" in diameter (as far as I can determine, its outer edge does not form a perfect circle).

the logo is not going to give an accurate dimension of its diameter through a pixel count. If the logo was not curling away from the box, then there would be no "guesstimate" of its diameter because the pixel count would be accurate to the pixel. (It still might not be a "perfect" circle, but it would be more of a circle than it is with its edges curling away asymmetrically.)

I was just suggesting the discrepancy between the 4.5-inch diameter it is said to have been, and the 4.33-inch diameter you determined, may have been caused by those edges curling, and not being able to get that accurate pixel count of the full, flat logo.

Dino.

[tony farrell]

You always do, Tony, and no offence was intended. I only used the term in relation to the St. John logo because, as you noticed, the edges of it are curling away from the box. Since those edges are not perfectly flat, and also as you mentioned the logo is not symmetrical because of the curled edges:

I haven't said that Dino - I simply observed that the badge is not a perfect circle.

For information, it's maximum diameter (mathematically derived from the pixel count is 4.345 inches; its minimum diameter is 4.32 inches (again by counting pixels)). As I did say, the badge's diameter is therefore much closer to 4.33" than it is to 4.5".

If you look at the screen-grab from "The Keys of Marinus" (posted above), it is clear that the badge has a thickness in excess of 1/16th of an inch. In reality therefore, it was probably a cardboard or plastic disc which was cut out by hand. Cutting a disc by hand is equally likely to be the cause of any asymmetry as any perceived lifting of the disc.

Now, we've previously discussed items such as the fonts supposedly used on the signage. Whilst the signage may have been based on a particular font, the fact remains that signage was hand-painted (the BBC employed sign-writers and scenic artists). Therefore, hand-painted signage will result in idiosyncrasies which would not be present if the signs were to have been printed.

Clearly the Tardis was a hand-made prop - strictly speaking, the BBC defined it as a piece of scenery - which was built in a limited time-frame. As such, its dimensions are extremely unlikely to be 'perfect'. How many of these imperfections/idiosyncrasies people choose to incorporate into their builds is up to them (Crispin for instance has tried to incorporate a great many in his latest build - see  http://tardisbuilders.com/index.php?topic=7174.0  ). I am simply pointing out those imperfections/idiosyncrasies.

In short, I'm simply trying to provide people with screen-accurate dimensions (including details like the SJA badge) and - as I've pointed out before - what was planned isn't necessarily what was built.  

T

[tony farrell]

In addition to the plans and the rarely seen high-definition pictures I posted above because I'm feeling generous, here (with the exception of the first two) are more high-definition pictures and six which haven't been seen for fifty-three years!













With thanks to my mate CJH.

Enjoy!  

T

[tony farrell]

And another ultra rare one for you.

As with the previous pictures, open this is a new tab and use the 'magnifying glass' to see it/them in all their glory!



T

[galacticprobe]

These are some beautiful images, Tony! Thanks so much for posting them so we can see them, some of us for the first time ever!

One thing I find very interesting in these photos is in the two with the TARDIS against the stone wall with the archway (the last one posted, and the other a few photos up-thread showing the TARDIS' right side). The roof lamp is lit, and like at the start of "The Ark", you can see light coming through the front Top Sign and the front windows. (Note the side windows and Top Signs in those photos are dark.) I can see in the last photo posted there is some reflection from the studio lights that make the Top Sign and windows look brighter than they actually are, but in the one up-thread, the light is definitely coming from inside the TARDIS.

Does this mean only the sides with the doors had Top Signs and windows that had no block-outs to stop light from coming through? (I can only speculate about the rear since we almost never see it when the roof lamp is lit, but from the front there is certainly some opening behind the Top Sign, and apparently nothing blocking out the windows because the light is clearly coming through them.) This would mean the roof lamp's light had a decent opening to the TARDIS' interior for it to light up the windows and Top Signs like it does.

Thoughts on this one? I know it's been discussed before on the thread on the TARDIS front in "The Ark", but these photos are much earlier as evidenced by the round lamp cap.

Dino.

[tony farrell]

In point of fact Dino, we discussed the roof lamp illuminating the front sign-box from inside the Tardis in relation to "The Reign of Terror" materialisation scene - see page 11 of this topic.

With the exception of the photo from the Daleks, all of the rarely (if ever) seen photos I've posted come from the missing adventure Marco Polo - Dino is correct in pointing out the lamp. (I think I'm in danger of overtaking Jonathan/Markofrani in terms of the number of high-definition photos I have and, as always, these are shared with permission. )

Whilst we can say for definite that the roof lamp is shining through the front sign-box in Reign of Terror, I think the pictures of the Tardis in the courtyard are open to interpretation. From my point of view, I'm not sure that the roof lamp is illuminating the inside of the sign in this picture - I think (by pure fluke) the studio lights are being reflected in the sign (and to some extent in the nearest front window too):



I think - were the roof lamp to be illuminating the sign - that more of the sign would be illuminated rather than just the portion nearest to us; if you were to draw a lime down from the lamp to the sign, the amount of the sign which is 'lit' would actually lie inside the imaginary line. Were the lamp to be illuminating the sign, surely there would be some 'bleeding' of the light which would cause more of the sign to be illuminated?

Not a definitive statement by any means, but simply my view.

T

[Rassilons Rod]

 Those photos!!!! <3

[galacticprobe]

In point of fact Dino, we discussed the roof lamp illuminating the front sign-box from inside the Tardis in relation to "The Reign of Terror" materialisation scene - see page 11 of this topic.

GAH! I even commented on that one! How could I get the title of the story wrong? (I'm an idiot; that's how!)

Panna: "What's he babbling about? ... Is he an idiot?"
Karuna: "Are you an idiot?"
the Doctor: "Well, I suppose I must be." -"Kinda"

Or maybe because both had the TARDIS materialize in a jungle-type environment. (An idiot would easily confuse the two. )

With the exception of the photo from the Daleks, all of the rarely (if ever) seen photos I've posted come from the missing adventure Marco Polo - Dino is correct in pointing out the lamp. (I think I'm in danger of overtaking Jonathan/Markofrani in terms of the number of high-definition photos I have and, as always, these are shared with permission. )

All of those photos are greatly appreciated, Tony. So as long as you have permission, go right ahead and overload our senses with great photos like these! (Remember, "Too much is never enough.")

Whilst we can say for definite that the roof lamp is shining through the front sign-box in Reign of Terror, I think the pictures of the Tardis in the courtyard are open to interpretation. From my point of view, I'm not sure that the roof lamp is illuminating the inside of the sign in this picture - I think (by pure fluke) the studio lights are being reflected in the sign (and to some extent in the nearest front window too):

I think - were the roof lamp to be illuminating the sign - that more of the sign would be illuminated rather than just the portion nearest to us; if you were to draw a lime down from the lamp to the sign, the amount of the sign which is 'lit' would actually lie inside the imaginary line. Were the lamp to be illuminating the sign, surely there would be some 'bleeding' of the light which would cause more of the sign to be illuminated?

Not a definitive statement by any means, but simply my view.

And a very valid view. This is why I asked for others' thoughts on it. I'd like very much to hear what others have to say (if for no other reason than to not make it look like the two of us are dominating the discussion ). I'm sure others do have their views on this, and we'd both be very interested to see what they have to say.

Dino.

[fivefingeredstyre]

Reflected studio light gets my vote...

[tony farrell]

This is probably not the right place for it but, since I've uploaded a lot of rare photos as well as revised plans for the Brachacki Tardis exterior in this topic, I thought I'd have a bit of fun.

I posted this photo a little while ago:



And since I've never colourised anything before, I thought it would make a suitable candidate for a trial colourisation session.



T

[Mark]

Nice work Tony.

Not sure if you've covered this (imagine you have) but I've only just realised that the right hand window is broken/iffy.

Looks as though the lower hinges have come off or something?

[tony farrell]

Thank you kind sir!

We did cover this somewhere - Steve W suggested that the windows were held in place using the same fittings as he did on his build and the window unit is still present but has just been 'folded' down inside the box.



I don't know what these little 'wheeled retainers' are called but if you lift them up the windows are free to drop to their fully opened position. (See http://tardisbuilders.com/index.php?topic=3229 ).

T

[fivefingeredstyre]

I believe they are called Window Rollers...

Nice job Tony, what did you use to colourise the picture?

[tony farrell]

http://www.colorizephoto.com 

T