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Sign Boxes and Clover leaves

Started by Rassilons Rod, May 11, 2007, 12:31 pm

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ep34042

Oct 11, 2005, 11:15 am #15 Last Edit: Aug 17, 2010, 06:15 pm by scarfwearer
Sorry, I didn't explain myself properly. I know the signs are cramped on the sides - in those, the 'P' and 'X' are partially obscured - I meant the spacing on the front and back signs don't match the signage on the front and back of the original Hartnell variant. For example, on the Tardis Library website there is a great pic of the Tardis showing the rear doors from 'The Web Planet'. This seems to clearly show a disparity with what signage is seen on that and the Axos detail pic in terms of spacing etc. Not sure how to post pics in this reply, to show exactly what I mean.

jona

Oct 11, 2005, 08:05 pm #16 Last Edit: Aug 17, 2010, 06:15 pm by scarfwearer
Is this the sort of thing you mean, ep34042?

signbox_comparison_1.jpg

I've flipped the image, and straightened it up a bit, for ease of comparison.

Also, if comparing the Claws photo with the remade front sign seems to give a pretty close match

Signbox_comparison_2.jpg

Front and back seem to be the same!

jona :)

purpleblancmange

Oct 11, 2005, 08:27 pm #17 Last Edit: Aug 17, 2010, 06:16 pm by scarfwearer
Quote from: ep34042 board=newbury thread=1113754603 post=1129029344Sorry, I didn't explain myself properly. I know the signs are cramped on the sides - in those, the 'P' and 'X' are partially obscured - I meant the spacing on the front and back signs don't match the signage on the front and back of the original Hartnell variant. For example, on the Tardis Library website there is a great pic of the Tardis showing the rear doors from 'The Web Planet'. This seems to clearly show a disparity with what signage is seen on that and the Axos detail pic in terms of spacing etc. Not sure how to post pics in this reply, to show exactly what I mean.


Sorry, I obviously hadn't fully read your post there, my fault - I'm a bit scatter brained at the moment.  Yes, the front and back signs are the same type face, but there is no proof, only my own speculation, as to why they changed them.  As I said, I reckon they must have been damaged and they tried to make new ones as close as possible to the original ones... the font is ever so slightly thinner which explains the wider area you were asking about.  For some reason I thought you were talking about whether the back sign had the lettering stuck on or not.  Just me having a Senior Moment!

The back doorside picture of the TARDIS from The Web Planet is a great reference picture and possibly one of the best - you should see the full sized original to that (the Library website's version is a scan from my 16" x 12" copy) - you can see so much detail that it's unbelievable!

ep34042

Oct 11, 2005, 08:28 pm #18 Last Edit: Aug 17, 2010, 06:16 pm by scarfwearer
YES!!!! That's perfect! Thanks very much! Yes, that very much does seem to show that the front and rear signs were remade, possibly during the War Machines refit, although it is difficult to be absolutely sure as to when this happened because any prop pic references from the late Hartnell, early Troughton era are all very fuzzy or screen grabs.....unless there is anyone out there with the photographic proof?

barry

Oct 12, 2005, 11:41 am #19 Last Edit: Aug 17, 2010, 06:16 pm by scarfwearer
Could ep34042 please email me about your Tardis models at BarryKWJones@aol.com I'd really appreciate chatting with you.

Thanks,

Barry

purpleblancmange

Oct 12, 2005, 11:49 am #20 Last Edit: Aug 17, 2010, 06:17 pm by scarfwearer
I've done a bit more looking and captured this picture:

SpearheadfromSpaceTARDISdetail1.jpg

Looking at it, the lettering is definitely transparent with the flood background being translucent.  Here's what I think happened.

The front and rear signs needed replacing so the bods went off and found adhesive lettering that was as close to the original font as possible - they were slightly narrower.  For some reason, they stuck the lettering to the front sign and sprayed over them to create the transulent effect, then peeled off the lettering.  You can see it wasn't too sucessful because some of the spray has seaped under the lettering - pay particular attention the the edges of the lettering in "POLICE" (this can and does happen, I speak from experience in the printing trade) and so when it came to the back sign, they just stuck the white lettering to a translucent dark blue, almost black background.

If you look at the front sign, you can see that where the flood has faded, it's revealed its speckled spray nature.  Quite handyily, in this shot the TARDIS lamp light is actually back lighting the sign.

The flood is acting as a diffuser, this is why it's brighter than the transparent lettering... this is why the lettering looks black and also explains what's going on in the Ark in Space shot where you can see the sign shining on the set wall.

barry

Oct 12, 2005, 11:59 am #21 Last Edit: Aug 17, 2010, 06:17 pm by scarfwearer
I definitely agree with that theory for the front sign, Purple. In many pics of the prop, particularly those take on the Terror of the Autons shoot and published in annuals and stuff over the years, it's real apparent to my eyes that the letters on the front sign are clear. They reflect the light of everything around them and look very different depending on the Tardis' setting.

Barry

ep34042

Oct 12, 2005, 03:05 pm #22 Last Edit: Aug 17, 2010, 06:17 pm by scarfwearer
Nice detective work, Purple. Makes sense about the front sign and possibly the rear. It would be nice if anyone has a good picture of the rear sign to absolutely confirm its not black or transparent type on a white background. Still have this feeling that that might be the case, though I can't prove it.

Purple: Is the pic you posted from 'Spearhead'?
If so, have you any clear pics of the large black base the Tardis had in the UNIT laboratory from 'Spearhead'?

purpleblancmange

Oct 12, 2005, 04:12 pm #23 Last Edit: Aug 17, 2010, 06:17 pm by scarfwearer
I've just had a hunt around and I've found an image of the back of the TARDIS with a Yeti stood next to it, thing is, you can't see it too closely, but it does have white text... you can just see the "P" of Police Box.  Now going back to the detail picture I posted where you can see through the prop to the back - seeing it's stuck on letters, I think it's safe to assume that they are white letters stuck to a translucent background.  It would make sense seeing as they'd try to match to the others on the prop.

Over the years, the front and back signs have faded, probably due to the adhock nature of their creation, which is why they look that off green / grey colour.

ep34042, regarding the large base picture, there's an image of it on the TARDIS Library site under Series One prop history.  If you're selling more of your models - you could always bung some cash "our" way.  ;)

jona

Oct 12, 2005, 04:18 pm #24 Last Edit: Aug 17, 2010, 06:17 pm by scarfwearer
Funnily enough I've recently re-watched Spearhead and saw something I'd never noticed before.  In the scene from which Purple's screen capture come from, the real reason why the Doctor couldn't dematerialise was that he wasn't even in the TARDIS at the time and the back doors were wide open. Has anyone noticed this before? There's a brief shot where Pertwee can be seen, jacket in hand, on the far left of the screen, when he should be inside the TARDIS, and then slips back inside through the open back doors. I was watching the DVD on my PC so I'm not sure how much would be visible on a TV screen. Can anyone provide a screen capture?

jona

purpleblancmange

Oct 12, 2005, 04:35 pm #25 Last Edit: Aug 17, 2010, 06:18 pm by scarfwearer
Here's an image of the back doors open - look to the far left of the TARDIS, you can just see it as they open outwards on the back:

SpearheadfromSpaceopenbackdoors.jpg

And here's an image where you can see the tempory tall black base, it's actually a black rostrum they've built and the prop is just sat on top of it:

SpearheadfromSpaceclearbase.jpg

Scarfwearer

Oct 12, 2005, 08:25 pm #26 Last Edit: Aug 17, 2010, 06:18 pm by scarfwearer
Interesting - just been looking at my video tape spearhead. I can see the backdoors moving slightly as (I presume) he enters, but no part of Jon Pertwee on screen.

Looking at the restoration team website, it appears that the video making process clips off some of the material around the edges that can remain visible on DVD. (Check out the Seeds of Death page mouse-over picture under "DVD Releases", for example).

This story was (unusually) shot on film. It's possible they noticed this problem while editing, and zoomed the shot in to hide it, so this apparent error may not have shown up on the original transmission.

Crispin

ep34042

Oct 13, 2005, 09:54 am #27 Last Edit: Aug 17, 2010, 06:18 pm by scarfwearer
Many thanks for the grabs Purple. Really appreciated. Interesting to see that it does appear that the prop with its original base is just sat on the black plinth. Always thought it replaced the original. Great pic showing the rear door opening. Never seen that before.

ep34042

Oct 13, 2005, 11:58 am #28 Last Edit: Oct 31, 2010, 10:38 pm by Scarfwearer
Just worked out how to post pictures, so here's another shot verifying Purple's theary that the lettering on the front sign is transparent.

[noIMG]http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a317/ep34042/TARDIS%20REF%20PICS/threedocs.jpg[/img]

ep34042

Nov 28, 2005, 12:12 am #29 Last Edit: Aug 17, 2010, 06:19 pm by scarfwearer
REAR DOORS VIEW? Could this picture of the original TARDIS prop be showing the rear doors? The centre divide seems to be attached to the right door on the prop storage pic, whereas the one on the right is as the prop was seen in the show throughout its use. This could be the proof that the signage on the rear lintel was black type on a white background. Maybe the black 'POLICE PUBLIC CALL BOX' lettering used above the front doors sign was peeled off and used in the rear sign. This would account for the lettering being transparent in the front lintel. Any thoughts anybody?

3a9955cc.jpg