Hartnell Console Room Set

[barryrwuk]

Here is a quick plan view showing how the various bits and bobs fit on the panel with slight adjustments for the 5" Movement Sensors.

This is only a very rough example without reference to many photos. However, it does show that very minimal adjustments are needed to move from 4.5" to 5" Sensor boxes.



Barry 

[galacticprobe]

Dino,

I have the meter graphics ready to email. If you PM me your email address I can send them to you. Or via some other route?

PM sent. Thanks, Barry! And your renders are fantastic! (I really do envy many of these renders because I can't render squat!)

Have you and Barry had chance to 'catch-up' regarding producing life-size graphics for download?

Actually, Tony, I can't remember. It's that fracking short-term memory of mine! But on the whole, I think between you and Barry and the tweaks you've made to my original graphics, they look good enough for a full-size face/graticule printout already. I don't think there's any more I can do with them with the graphics program I've got at the moment.

(I'm taking my Lead Auditor's exam with the British Standards Institute this week so won't have time to contribute until next week at the earliest but I do have some suggestions for the internal 'divisions' underneath the lenses.)

Good luck with that exam, Tony! Knock it dead! Do what you have to and worry about those Movement Sensors' divisions once that exam is over. We can wait.

On which subject, Jonathan posted a hi-resolution cropped colour picture of the console's central column in it's final appearance in "Inferno". I wonder if a similar picture might be 'available' for the movement sensors. This might help with these mysterious internal divisions.

A color image would be great, but I think even a B&W image, if it was a nice close-up, would reveal just as much info about those divisions inside the Sensors, especially of one of the lights is lit. Personally? I have a feeling that it's a simple * type pattern of plain plastic sheet, but with more divisions. (Just a guess, but it's one possibility. And has anyone managed to count just how many divisions there are in those things?)

Indeed, I think I remember Dino suggesting a possible mechanical way that the rotating lights were achieved (as opposed to a more modern electronically controlled way). Any thoughts which might tie in with the divisions?

I think I remember that as well. (Which sounds better: I think, or I hope? ) A mechanical way of rotating the lights would involve small motors turning a section of what's known as a "Wafer Switch". Those are not easy to find these days. It would also involve mounting the motor, and the wafer switch section, to the console. Mounting the motor wouldn't be that difficult, but the section of Wafer Switch could be an issue, and you'd have to do that twice. And with mechanical workings like that you have more things that can go wrong. Aside from the motor failing, each time the Wafer Switch makes and breaks a connection is creates a small "spark" (or in the electronics vernacular, and "arc"), which leaves behind carbon fouling just like you'd find with spark plugs. Eventually the Wafer will wear out as those arcs also burn away a little bit of the contacts, and in time the wafer is done for. Here are some examples:

Your "average" wafer switch. They come in all numbers of layers.


A single wafer removed from the switch. (They're easy to take apart; not so easy to reassemble!)

This is one of those Wafers that has contacts all around it; not all of them do. But the way they work is you have all of the contacts (dark pink arrow), the center slip ring (blue arrow) with the tab sticking out from it (red arrow), and one center contact that is always in contact with the slip ring (the green arrow - on this wafer almost hidden on the underside). It's sort of like a mini automobile distributor cap. As the slip ring rotates, the center contact always rubs on the ring (this is where the power for the LED/bulb would come in), and as the tab passes the other contacts the power is passed through to the LED/bulb that's connected to that contact, and so on, round and round. The motor would have its shaft in that center oblong hole and that's what would rotate the slip ring.

Some problems with this mechanical method of rotating the lights inside the Movement Sensor:

As you can see here, you can't always find a wafer switch with contacts that go all the way round the wafer. That is a huge problem when trying to rotate the lights because you're going to get a gap when there are no lights lit. (And in this image the green arrow is giving you a better look at the center contact that's always touching the slip ring.)

Another problem, aside from the carbon fouling: wear.

Again, the red arrow pointing to the tab, the green arrow pointing to the central contact, and the blue arrow pointing to the slip ring. In this image you can see the slip ring gets work down by the friction of the central contact. (I know this image shows there are multiple central contacts, and the wafer has an unusual contact pattern, but it does show the wearing of the slip ring. In fact, near the very bottom of the outer wearing marks you can see just how deep the wear groove is starting to get.) It will take a while for your console's slip ring to wear away to the point that the wafer is useless (unless you run the Movement Sensor 24/7/365), but it is another problem with mechanical means of rotation.

So... with the wafer switch and mechanical means of rotating the lights out of the way, the easiest way to achieve the rotating effect would be with those old bullet-proof standbys: the NE555 timer (to control the speed of rotation, and hence the duration in which each light - or LED - is on), and the 4017 Decade Counter, which takes the output pulses from the 555 and counts from 1 to 10 and then resets and starts counting again. The 4017 also has a nice feature that allows you to pick when you want it to reset and start the counting again. It's by means of a simple jumper wire going from what you want as the last "count" output and feeding that back to the Reset pin on the 4017. (Both the 555 and 4017 come with wiring instructions, so there's no problem with wiring them up, and the 4017's instructions will show you how to wire the Reset.) You could set it to count from 1 to 10, or any number in between. If there are only 8 divisions (and "lights") in the Movement Sensors, then you can jumper wire the 4017 to reset after counting to 8; then the rotation will be smooth (think if the "Power Core" on the bottom of the 'Lost In Space' TV series Jupiter 2 and its Space Pod and how those lights rotated, especially on the full-scale mock up of the Pod, and the J2). And along those lines, if more than one light inside the Sensor is lit at the same time, you can just wire those two LEDs (or small bulbs) to the same 4017 output, and if that's the case then you'd only need the 4017 to count half of the way. (And now we've already gotten into too much electronics here - me trying to answer Tony's question about the methods, and an excellent question it was - and it will stop making sense without having a circuit diagram to look at. And all of this is for a real-world build, not a virtual build, so I'll stop for now, but we can continue this in another topic/thread if needed.)

Sorry to high-jack your thread Barry!

I think we'll both have to take blame for that one, Tony!

Back to you, Barry!

Dino.

[markofrani]

Is it possible that the rotating light movement in the sensor was achieved by a Dekatron spinner?
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xn9q9p_dekatron-spinner-kit_tech

[barryrwuk]

Anything's possible. 

[tony farrell]

Is it possible that the rotating light movement in the sensor was achieved by a Dekatron spinner?
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xn9q9p_dekatron-spinner-kit_tech

Erm, sadly Jonathan, no: Dekatrons or Decatrons are gas-filled glass tubes about the size of an old-fashioned glass valve (like the ones in TV sets that used to take several minutes to warm-up) - about an inch and a half in diameter.

Anyway, back on topic. Yet another excellent render by Mr Ward!

[barryrwuk]

After watching the start of 'The Sensorites' I have made a few adjustments to my Movement Sensor/Telepathic Circuit.

I think that the ring at the edge of the light is a separate object and not just painted onto the lens as I had previously thought.



Getting there.

Barry  

[barryrwuk]

A first attempt at the lens for the Symbolic Indicator Lamps. No painted patterns yet - just the lens.



Barry 

[Rassilons Rod]

Barry, I may have missed it earlier  (or forgotten).... Which program are you using for this? Maya, Lightwave, Blender, something else?

[barryrwuk]

I'm using Blender. The renders are currently created using Blender's internal renderer. At some point I'll move over to using Blender's new renderer, Cycles. 

[Rassilons Rod]

Ah ok Then I have no advice to offer (as a Maya guy).

I'll just sit back and continue to admire your work

I'm using Blender. The renders are currently created using Blender's internal renderer. At some point I'll move over to using Blender's new renderer, Cycles. 

[barryrwuk]

Ah ok Then I have no advice to offer (as a Maya guy).

I'm always open to advice. Was it something that you could make generic?

I have never tried Maya. I know Blender has a steep learning curve but as I'm halfway up it I'm loathe to move to something else. I think one of the best things about this forum is seeing the many different ways that people approach things - and the various tools that they use to do it.

Barry 

[Rassilons Rod]

Yes indeed! Blender scares the crap out of me... But I've heard similar said of Maya

Ah ok Then I have no advice to offer (as a Maya guy).

I'm always open to advice. Was it something that you could make generic?

I have never tried Maya. I know Blender has a steep learning curve but as I'm halfway up it I'm loathe to move to something else. I think one of the best things about this forum is seeing the many different ways that people approach things - and the various tools that they use to do it.

Barry 

[rob49152]

the first bit of advice I give anyone in 3D modelling is this:

If you can afford the memory ALWAYS bevel the edges!! and more than just the usual 45 degree angle. I usually put between 3 to 5 bevels on an edge. Also do both inside edge and outside edge bevels.

You'd be surprised how a subtle glint of light sweeping across the edge corners adds depth to the image. That and pretty much nothing in reality has perfect 90 degree corners.

[barryrwuk]

If you can afford the memory ALWAYS bevel the edges!! and more than just the usual 45 degree angle. I usually put between 3 to 5 bevels on an edge. Also do both inside edge and outside edge bevels.

Thanks, Rob49152. I have been doing this to most objects, although I haven't done it to the inside facets angles of the lens. Do you think it would be worth it in this instance?

Barry 

[rob49152]

If you can do it. I'd say go for it. You'd be surprised how much it can add to a render. Especially if the surface is reflective or transparent like glass. Here's a quick test to show different bevels. Closest = no bevel, Middle = single 45 degree edge and Farthest is 5 step bevel.  The row in the back have a rubber like texture and the front row is more glossy.