Original Console Control Panels

[markofrani]

Here's a colour blow-up from 'Power Of The Daleks'. That half dome does look a little silvery compared to the grey....

[tony farrell]

Yes, it does somewhat... and it rather nicely shows the little ridge on the right-hand side of the Fast Return Switch.
T

[Rassilons Rod]

Right you are

[galacticprobe]

Not meaning to complicate this intricate control (which seems complicated enough), but are there any ideas out there as to what the bits inside the removable part of the Fast Return Switch are?

(This is Tony's image btw, cropped, lightened, and sharpened, which is why those two horizontal lines are in there; they're not artefacts of the image, they're Tony's yellow pointer lines that just happened to change when I made the image lighter and sharpened it.)

From my electronics background, that large cylindrical piece (red arrow) looks like a large resistor or, more likely, a fixed inductor. I'm leaning more towards the inductor because of the light color - resistors are usually dark brown whereas inductors are usually a light blue or tan, though both resistors and this type of inductor have those color code bands around them to tell you what the value is. (And if you look closely at the flat side you can just see the lead sticking out of the center.) As for the color code? Well that's anyone's guess unless someone knows how to colorize this image. (If anyone is interested in what the colors in the color code are let me know and I'll elaborate, otherwise I don't want to bore anyone.)

The two tubular things (yellow arrows) looks almost like variable inductors, and you can almost see the coil of wiring on the upper one (upper in the way this image is oriented). A tuning tool would normally be inserted into the tube to turn the adjust lug that would change the value of the inductor. So most variable inductors look like this, at least those older ones did.

The blue arrows are pointing to what looks like plain wires; in this image the left one could be bare and given a nice "S" bend, and the right one looks like it's still got its insulation on it, but not as neatly "S-bent" as the other. I'm on the fence with the bare wire on the left; it could still have its insulation on it as well since its shine is very close to that on the right wire.

The shiny silver-looking box (green arrow): that one's got me stumped. From its shape and casing it could be anything from a crystal oscillator to a larger capacitor. I've seen dozens of components that look like this, so unless someone has some insider info on what was actually used, I guess you could use any bit of 'tronics that looks like this.

Anyway, that's my take on the innards of that removable part. Any other guesses?

Dino.

[tony farrell]

Not meaning to complicate this intricate control (which seems complicated enough), but are there any ideas out there as to what the bits inside the removable part of the Fast Return Switch are?

The two tubular things (yellow arrows) looks almost like variable inductors, and you can almost see the coil of wiring on the upper one (upper in the way this image is oriented).
Anyway, that's my take on the innards of that removable part. Any other guesses?
Dino.

Wow, when i started this topic, it was to describe the original Tardis' controls - I didn't expect this level of detailed discussion.

In the scene where these screen grabs are taken from, William Hartnell describes what Dino is calling a "variable inductor" as the release spring for the Fast Return Switch (indeed he is seen to remove the left-hand one and re-seat it the other way up). So, do variable inductors look like springs or are we literally looking at two small springs that the Visual Effects Department have put inside for dramatic purposes?

The more I think about the Fast Return Switch, the more inclined I am to think that it started life as a hand-held piece of vacuum valve testing equipment - the kind of portable equipment TV repair men used when I was a kid (many, many moons ago now)!  (This would make sense of the 'nixie' type sockets - it would also make sense of the removable section (i.e., by substituting different sized 'nixies', different sized valves could be tested), two buttons to switch the output and a jack socket to go to a separate read-out meter.)

This unit is of a similar 'vintage' and, though a different design, illustrates my thinking.



T

[galacticprobe]

Wow, when i started this topic, it was to describe the original Tardis' controls - I didn't expect this level of detailed discussion.

It's called "opening that can or worms", my friend! (And it shows just how much detail and thought went into making this work of art.)

In the scene where these screen grabs are taken from, William Hartnell describes what Dino is calling a "variable inductor" as the release spring for the Fast Return Switch (indeed he is seen to remove the left-hand one and re-seat it the other way up). So, do variable inductors look like springs or are we literally looking at two small springs that the Visual Effects Department have put inside for dramatic purposes?

Could be both, Tony. The outside of variable inductors has the coil of wire wrapped around it, and it could look like a spring to the unknowing eye. Inside it is a ferrite core that screws up and down, thereby varying the "Henry" value of the inductor. That core can be screwed all the way out and removed, so the props guys could easily have done that, and then inserted a spring into the empty "core" (or now the tube the adjustable core would be in) so the Doctor would have a spring to fiddle with, and for the viewer to clearly see.

The more I think about the Fast Return Switch, the more inclined I am to think that it started life as a hand-held piece of vacuum valve testing equipment - the kind of portable equipment TV repair men used when I was a kid (many, many moons ago now)!   (This would make sense of the 'nixie' type sockets - it would also make sense of the removable section (i.e., by substituting different sized 'nixies', different sized valves could be tested), two buttons to switch the output and a jack socket to go to a separate read-out meter.)

This unit is of a similar 'vintage' and, though a different design, illustrates my thinking.

(I removed the image to save room, and we already have it just above.)

Interesting thought, Tony, and I wouldn't doubt it. Though in the US, the only tube/valve testers that I've ever seen and worked with were about the size of a small suitcase, or large briefcase. There is a lot of circuitry that goes into testers of that nature, and some of those testers have "faces" that look like the image you posted earlier with all of the sockets. In fact I gave my tester to my neighbor, an amateur radio operator who's still running tubes, and the tester measured 8 inches tall, 24 inches wide, and 12 inches deep, with knobs and sockets all over the face of it. A tester that could be handheld could only be good for testing the filament (that glowing part of the tube) to see if it was burnt out or not (the normal cause of tube failure).

For full operational testing of a tube/valve, you would need the circuitry of the briefcase-sized tester. I'm not saying the props guys didn't use one of those handheld testers, only that I've never seen one, but if anyone finds a photo of one, as an electronic tech, I would be very interested in seeing it. So please post it if you can find one! (Ebay search, here I come!)

Dino.

[tony farrell]

(Ebay search, here I come!)
Dino.

Yes indeed Dino, Ebay can be a great resource (more of that in a moment). And thanks, as always, for your detailed explanations of all things electrical (though, I must admit - being a technophobe - some of it does go 'over my head'  ).

If I may, I'd like to indulge in a slight diversion from the main thrust of this thread (it is still relevant as it concerns http://tardisbuilders.com/index.php?topic=4825.0 where, as you'll all know my 'finalised' plans are posted after first being offered for discussion/comment here):

It is fair to say that - in the past - there has been a great deal of debate as to whether (in the Pilot Episode) the Police Box Prop was split down to allow for Barbara to enter the Tardis interior directly through the Police Box doors.



It wasn't until the BBC posted the set plan for the Pilot Episode in September 2013's edition of The Radio Times that we got proof of the existence of a secondary pair of Police Box doors.



I posted a somewhat poor publicity picture which showed what I took to be joins in the prop seen behind Jackie Lane in support of this and to point out that the secondary Police Box doors were made as a separate prop in their own right (i.e., not removed from the rest of Brachaki's Police Box prop):



I'm now pleased to say that I've been sent a high-definition version of this photo which does indeed clearly show the joins in the second set of Police Box doors proving that a second set of doors was indeed made for the Pilot Episode:



We started by mentioning Ebay well, in other news (after a bit of a delay) I finally manged to acquire two pairs of these:



I did say that I'd have something to contribute - I'll post detailed measurements as part of my diagram for 'The Movement Sensors'.

Well, I might as well put my money where my mouth is!  

For those interested, these are Butlers 1518 (side) lenses as used on Massey Ferguson (UK) tractors from 1950 to 1970. Those who know me will know that my house backs onto farmland; chatting to Mark (who owns the farm), I discovered that these are sometimes known as 'lollipop' lamps because of their shape and the fact they stick out from the sides of the tractor. I offer this as a tip if anyone wants to search for some of these elusive little beauties.

T

[barryrwuk]

For those interested, these are Butlers 1518 (side) lenses as used on Massey Ferguson (UK) tractors from 1950 to 1970. Those who know me will know that my house backs onto farmland; chatting to Mark (who owns the farm), I discovered that these are sometimes known as 'lollipop' lamps because of their shape and the fact they stick out from the sides of the tractor. I offer this as a tip if anyone wants to search for some of these elusive little beauties.

I'm glad you tracked some down, Tony.

Actually, they aren't as quite as elusive as you might think. I have tracked down two of the lollipop style lamps and a single red lens - all from Ebay. So it is certainly worth checking fequently on Ebay if anyone is still on the lookout.

I understand that equivalent lollipops are still made in India. As far as I can tell from the pictures, the Indian ones are identical.

My Lollipops came off of a Bedford Ambulance, apparently. So it looks like they were a standard part used on a variety of vehicles - the 60s were frugal in that way.



If anyone is looking for these lamps, don't be put off if the casings are slightly different - it is the lenses that count.

Barry 

[tony farrell]

If anyone is looking for these lamps, don't be put off if the casings are slightly different - it is the lenses that count.
Barry  

My lenses came with plastic surrounds. If your lenses are the same Barry then all that would be required to form the little 'lip' you identified here http://tardisbuilders.com/index.php?topic=5936.30 would be to cut off the overlap in the surrounds (where the tightening screw is) and to remove the gland port (access tube for the wiring). The rest of the surround would then be concealed within the shallow boxes which form the Movement Sensors.

Barry, any chance you could post pictures of and dimensions for your red lens? I'd like to see how close it is to my drawing (and vice versa).


Thanks in anticipation......

T

[barryrwuk]

My lenses came with plastic surrounds. If your lenses are the same Barry then all that would be required to form the little 'lip' you identified here http://tardisbuilders.com/index.php?topic=5936.30 would be to cut off the overlap in the surrounds (where the tightening screw is). The rest of the surround would then be concealed within the shallow boxes which form the Movement Sensors.

The surrounds on my lollipops are metal. (The things we write as tardis builders.  )

The red Butlers is physically identical in all respects to the amber lenses.





Both the above were taken in indirect sunlight.

Obviously, this is only good for the symbolic indicator on panel 5.

Barry 

[tony farrell]

Thank you Barry. I think a coat of transparent red 'varnish'/glass paint (that should read 'paint for use on glass'  will serve to transform one of my amber lenses for use in Panel 5.

Now all I need are lenses of the correct profile for the other panels!

T

[barryrwuk]

Thank you Barry. I think a coat of transparent red 'varnish'/glass paint (that should read 'paint for use on glass'   will serve to transform one of my amber lenses for use in Panel 5.

Now all I need are lenses of the correct profile for the other panels!

T

I can probably find you the Lucas equivalent part number for the Butlers 1518 red lenses. That will give you another way of searching for them on Ebay.

I'm now fairly sure that the other symbolic indicator lamps are, as you suggested, from railway lanterns. They were almost certainly glass and had fewer, deeper facets. I'm still looking for one... but it will be posted here if I ever find something suitable.

Barry

[tony farrell]

I've used paint for glass before and it works perfectly acceptably on plastics as well (besides the only visible red section is the narrow triangle). I think for others though, the equivalent part number of the red lens would be helpful. 

T

[galacticprobe]

Yes indeed Dino, Ebay can be a great resource (more of that in a moment).

I've known that for a while, now. The wife has gotten some amazing bargains on eBay, and those tweed jackets I'm wearing in my 11th Doctor clothing in my "Dino's Costumes" thread all came from eBay, with each jacket costing only $38 US (including shipping) - not all bought at the same time, mind you... it took some months between each to find one in my size, and of the right color; though that was back in late 2010, so prices for things like that may have changed now. Still, I recently managed to find a "close enough" clear glass hexagonal tea light holder that when turned upside-down is a great match for the one on the 2005 console: total cost with shipping, $5 US!

And thanks, as always, for your detailed explanations of all things electrical (though, I must admit - being a technophobe - some of it does go 'over my head'  ).

You're welcome, Tony. Not everyone here is versed in electronics, so I try to explain things in lay terms as above so people know what they're looking at (and hopefully doing it without making everyone's eyes bleed, or boring those with electronics backgrounds to death).

If I may, I'd like to indulge in a slight diversion from the main thrust of this thread (it is still relevant as it concerns http://tardisbuilders.com/index.php?topic=4825.0 where, as you'll all know my 'finalised' plans are posted after first being offered for discussion/comment here):

Also, great research on that second set of Police Box doors and the Pilot!

Dino.

[barryrwuk]

I've used paint for glass before and it works perfectly acceptably on plastics as well (besides the only visible red section is the narrow triangle). I think for others though, the equivalent part number of the red lens would be helpful. 

T

OK.

Butlers 1518 = Lucas 577784

Actually, that Lucas number might be for the amber lenses too. Anyway, it is worth searching Ebay for both numbers if you are looking to purchase a set of these lenses.

Barry