Baker Roundel Development Project

[Theta Sigma]

I have completed the measuring and after 12 iterations of tweaking, I now have a drawing of the new former.  I think this as close as I am going to get.  I have sharpened some of the features as compared to the reference object to account for loss of detail/softening resulting from the casting process, etc.  So, because of these sharper "points" it's not going to set on the casting just right, but I present the following for your viewing pleasure:

I'll be sure to post pics!

I hope to have a new brass former cut this weekend sometime, and then onto making a huge mess with plaster.

[davidnagel]

Yay to big mess!!

[propfix]

Good job!

[galacticprobe]

Looks great, Kev! That should make a great master to form a mould from. And Good job, propfix, for helping Kev get the details he needed for this project. (I hope you stay a part of our TARDIS Builders Family for a long, long time. I'm sure there might be other projects cropping up in future that you will be able to help with. Thank you!)

And, Kev, I can't wait to see how your latest rendition of the roundel master turns out. (Pardon that pun.)

Dino.

[Theta Sigma]

Ok, so one last question on the roundel.  Propfix, I believe I recall you saying that the rim of the roundel that would be used for mounting is in the same plane as the center of the roundel.  Can you please confirm this based on your 1st generation cast from an original mould? 

There was considerable warping that occurred during shipment of the partial casts I received, and the outer rim was considerably higher than the center.  I was able to de-warp it for the most part by heating it, and I have assumed that the center and rim are in the same plane when designing my new former.  I suspect that all non re-enforced fiberglass castings are going to be prone to warping.

I know that others who have roundels have posted pictures that show the rim being higher than the center, but I'm not certain if there is any definitive way to tell whether that is from warping or not.  I also suspect that there may have been two different types of "Baker" roundels made during the original series,  for different depth walls.

In reality, the mounting depth probably doesn't matter that much, but warping would affect the slope of the "interesting" area.

[galacticprobe]

Kev, I think you might be right about the two different types of "Baker" roundels, and there could possibly be even four:

1 - the type you're trying to re-create, which would be mounted to the wall from behind with the "flange" holding it in place;
2 - the "slide into the access hole" kind as we saw in "Castrovalva": the one Nyssa pulls out of the deep wall opening to vent the thermobuffers and remove heat from the TARDIS interior;
3 - the painted versions that were mounted on the front of the walls, like the kind Turlough opened in "Terminus";
4 - the translucent fiberglass kind with a removable center flat (leaving the ridged part in place), such as we saw the 6th Doctor using in several places while trying to repair the Chameleon Circuit, as well as sabotage the Cybermen's attempt to hijack the TARDIS in "Attack of the Cybermen".

No doubt that all of those roundels were made from the same former since the roundels didn't change appearance from Season 15 until the end of Season 26 (painting not withstanding), and I'm guessing that trimming, filling, and cutting in various places gave us roundels 1, 3, and 4 above:

Turlough opening the (#3) solid roundel, and note that this roundel is solid - no contours to the back: it's a flat surface, and the roundel is actually larger than the opening (just by a little, but enough so it rests against the wall);


The 6th Doctor in front of one of the (#4) translucent roundels that has its center area open, and its ridged edge still in place.

But Number 2-style? I think that one might have been a special build since that particular roundel was more like a drum, having its sides being as thick as the wall recess.

A variant of that roundel style was also used in "Dimensions In Time", when the Rani's assistant sealed a Cyberman and Timelord away inside her TARDIS' walls. Though that one looks like it was slightly modified with sides that were narrower than the rim, as that roundel was thicker than the walls:

Screen grab from "Dimensions" showing the sides of the roundel compared with the wall thickness: note how those roundel sides are narrower than the face;


and the roundel in place showing the ridges on the face - pretty much the same as always.

Sorry I don't have my "Castrovalva" DVDs at hand to get a grab of the roundel Nyssa opened, but I think that one might have been a smooth-walled version - not narrower-sided, but the walls being just as wide as the roundel's face and possibly a little deeper as they made the wall recess deeper. And sorry about the poor quality if the above grabs ("Youtube Specials" - all of my Classic DVDs from these eras are in storage; maybe someone else can furnish better grabs that show these in nicer detail).

So I think you're right, Kev; several kinds of roundels were made. I know propfix will correct me if I'm wrong, but from the references I've seen, I think the "flange" and the center bit of the roundel that you're making are supposed to be in the same plane as you suspect.

I hope some of this helps.

Dino.

[propfix]

These fibreglass roundels were first used in the secondary console room set, painted to look like wooden mouldings. I've seen photos of roundels from the Davison/C Baker/McCoy era, and you can still see traces of paint where they were cleaned off and re-used.

The outer flange is there simply to provide a means of attachment to the set wall, and (of course) to stop them falling through the holes!! The centre and outer flange do appear to be the same level. It certainly makes sense, as these would both be part of the flat surface on which the plaster was formed.

There was only ever one "type" of roundel made, with a few castings being modified to make the "specials".

[lespaceplie]

Really fantastic work here! I'm hoping you'll post the final profile (without the sharpening). I'm planning on making some 1/5 size walls. The 10 cm mini roundels won't be fiberglass, though. I'll likely make a polyclay buck to vacuum form them in translucent sheet, then scratch the backs up coarsely to resemble the fiber.

[davidnagel]

So dare I ask, whatever happened to this? How did the new new brass cutting and roundel attempt go?

[Theta Sigma]

The new brass cutting was done some time ago, but that was about as far as it went.  I did make up some lime putty to mix with the plaster back in August.  The intent was to age it for 2 weeks, which is the minimum.  It's still aging.    That's good because lime putty gets better with age, but bad because I just lost motivation.  Interest on this forum was my primary source of motivation, and it just seemed to fall flat.   

Mixing the lime putty with the plaster will keep it "plastic" for a longer period of time.  I my research, this mixture is what restoration specialists use when repairing cornice moulding in-situ.  https://youtu.be/hNqjZA_esJU.   The approach seems very similar to my chosen method of creating a roundel master.

The project has indeed been on my mind lately, and maybe this renewed interest is all I need to re-motivate.  I have cut the new brass former, but it needs a little fine sanding and mounting to the former block before it is ready to use. 

I expect that when the weather warms up a bit, I'll have something new to show.  Stay tuned.   

[davidnagel]

Great. I can't wait!  I've been eagerly watching to see how the new former goes as to possibly reproduce your results and do my own set of roundels at some point. Probably vacuum formed instead of fibreglassed, simply because fibreglass scares me!

Shame you lost the motivation, scuppers a project when that happens. Fingers crossed!

[davidnagel]

This video: https://youtu.be/m2DQcurEsGQ just gave me an awesome idea........................

[galacticprobe]

Interest on this forum was my primary source of motivation, and it just seemed to fall flat.    

I'm interested! I'm interested!

I'm so seriously interested in this that I'm on the verge of going Super Saiyan over it!

I just haven't posted anything because I didn't want you to feel like I was bugging you.

Dino.
P. S. Thanks, David, for doing the bugging on this one!

[Theta Sigma]

This video: https://youtu.be/m2DQcurEsGQ just gave me an awesome idea........................

I tried something similar with a mini router.   I did not have much success on the roundel front using that method.

[davidnagel]

I tried something similar with a mini router.   I did not have much success on the roundel front using that method.

Dang. It did look like it'd need more effort involved.

I wonder, and sorry this isn't quite intended for this thread, where the original roundel plug came from? Is it possible it was a combination of a few flanges/surrounds etc to create the shape, or was it built as per the way you are, from plaster of paris etc etc.