2013 Roundels

[Kingpin]

Starting in 2012's The Snowmen and carrying on into the 2013 series, we have seen the newest incarnation of the TARDIS roundels, a significantly elaborate product from the Doctor Who production team compared to earlier examples.



The main body of the roundel is comprised of a single neck ring from one of the controversial "Paradigm" Daleks which debuted back in the 2010 series.  The ring is sat on top of what would appear to be a blue LED rope light.  In the centre of the neck ring three curved and faceted elements in a antique brass colour have been arranged around what would appear to be a silver bit of machined metalwork, which holds a single amber coloured light (in some "powered down" shots this appears to be a coloured glass cover).



In terms of scale, the folks at Project Dalek estimate the Paradigm Dalek's dome to be roughly 54inches/137.16cm in diameter... as the neck rings appear to be pretty similar in size to the dome this gives us a rough working measurement for the ring/roundel.

The material of the ring is likely to be fibreglass.  The material of the three curved, faceted details may also be fibreglass, with the surround of the amber lamp either being a lightweight metal like aluminium, or possibly even a resin cast.

[galacticprobe]

Kingpin, great graphics! One thing, though... that measurement guesstimate from Project Dalek: a head dome of 54 inches in diameter? That would make the Dalek's head 4.5 feet in diameter. (That's one huge Dalek!) Could they possibly have meant circumference?

A 54-inch (widest?) circumference would make the new Daleks' head about 17.1 inches in diameter, which sounds more feasible. Considering the neck rings are larger, that would make these new roundels - depending on which level of the neck rings they used - between, roughly, 18 and 24 inches in diameter. When you view images from "Journey to the Center of the TARDIS" and other episodes where someone is standing close to a roundel, that 24-inche diameter looks about right.

Also, where did you get that first image you posted? Is it a render? Or some of the concept art the BBC web site sometimes posts?

Dino.

[Kingpin]

The number I doubled up appeared to be the radius.  I suppose the measurements could've been in cm, unfortunately they didn't actually put the units of measurement down... which seems extraordinarily silly.

Both images were made by myself, after I finished the black and white line art I coloured it in, adding the glow effects and mocking up something analogous to the "Gallifreyan alloy" the pillars have been rendered in.
I'm rather chuffed that it's good enough to pass as official BBC concept art.

[tony farrell]

The number I doubled up appeared to be the radius.  I suppose the measurements could've been in cm, unfortunately they didn't actually put the units of measurement down... which seems extraordinarily silly.
I'm rather chuffed that it's good enough to pass as official BBC concept art.

Great graphics Kingpic - love the 'star field' effect.
In fairness to Project Dalek, they do state the measurements as "centimeters unless otherwise stated". The "O" with the "/" through it means diameter.
From PD:

Tony

[galacticprobe]

That makes sense... Kingpin, 54cm is just over 21 inches, so I can easily see that as the new Dalek head dome diameter. (As for it being a radius, that would make the dome 42 inches, or 3.5 feet - still a HUGE Dalek under that dome! I think for a diameter, 54cm works out about right.) And yes: that was some serious work you did coloring in the roundel! Well done (obviously - duh - if I thought it was BBC concept art!). Very well done!

(I may get an enlarged printout and stick a few of the head-on views on my hallway wall, just to see if the wife notices. Oh wait... frack! She'd have to drive me to the print place! I guess I'll just print a few out on 8.5 x 11 paper and go with those until she notices. Then - if I survive her reaction, I'll upgrade! )

And along those thoughts, since you did such a great job on those drawings, do you have any idea of what the cross-section of one of these roundels might look like? It's hard for me to tell in the screen grabs, but your eyes seem to be better at picking out their details than mine are. (Heck, your eyes are probably just better than mine!)
--------------------------------------------
Tony, great drawings of those neck rings! Now all we need to figure out is, which size neck ring did they use for the new roundel? (Also, just curious, but what does each square in your drawing equal?)

Dino.

[Kingpin]

In fairness to Project Dalek, they do state the measurements as "centimeters unless otherwise stated". The "O" with the "/" through it means diameter.

Thanks for the clarification, unfortunately the preview of the plans I was working from didn't appear include that notation.

I'll look into producing a cross-section of the roundel.

At a purely speculative guess, I imagine they went with the lowermost ring, as they appear to sit flush against the wall... but that's just a completely random guess.

[tony farrell]

Hi Kingpin,
Assuming it is a Dalek neck ring, then the centre part looks incredibly like the plans for the Dalek eye-piece. If that's correct, then it gives us the following measurements:

I hope this helps.
Tony

[Kingpin]

It's a reasonable estimate to work to, although I'm not certain the central piece is part of the eye...

If only the studio tours went onto the gallery... we might get some close-up photos.


Here's hoping we see some closer shots of the Roundels in the final two episodes of this year, or during next series.

[galacticprobe]

Here's a cropped image from one of your grabs, Kingpin:

I lightened and sharpened it as best as I could. Judging by its size when compared to the guy in the photo, even though you can't really see the bottom edge of the roundel, it looks large enough to be that bottom neck Dalek ring. Also at this angle, hopefully it gives you some sense of depth to it for that cross-section.

As for the front view:

it almost looks like those little round-cornered trapezoidal things you've got in the three arcs of the middle section are grouped closer together in twos, so it looks like there are four groups in each arc section. (Am I making enough sense with that? I'd highlight the places, but the arrows totally distract from seeing the four groups of two that I'm trying to explain.)

Dino.

[davidnagel]

I think there is a clearer shot of one of them in the Christmas special isn't there? Or am I completed mistaken?

*investigates*

[edit]

Scratch that, I can't find anything in a quick google image search swoop

[Kingpin]

Dino,
The shots posted will help when working with the cross-section.  I had noticed the pairing of the trapezoids... I had tried to replicate it as best as I could, but the image I was using (a shot from Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS) lacked much detail in the middle of the Roundel due to the flare from the amber light, so I had to make a few estimates with a second screenshot.

[galacticprobe]

Kingpin, I'm not criticizing your great work, just offering suggestions to try and help you get better details, so please forgive me if it looks like I'm coming across the wrong way. (I did, after all, mistake your colorized image for BBC Concept Art.

In helping davidnagel locate a better-detailed image, I did manage to find this image from "Journey". I lightened it a bit, played with the contrast and sharpness, and I think it shows more details of those trapezoid groups... even in the trapezoids themselves:

Even against the glare of the central amber dome you can get a good look at the detail in the area from about the 11 o'clock to the 2 o'clock position. It appears that the trapezoids are indents, much like the dimples on the 2005 console rim. Also, if you look at how that central amber dome is inset deeper than the sections that have the trapezoids in them, it appears - just a guess by how it looks - that the dimmer amber "glow" is simply the reflection of the central dome's light against the "walls" of the raised area around the dome. (See the bottom of the roundel and notice at "6 o'clock" the shadow of the housing that surrounds the dome on the raised trapezoid section. Not sure why that shadow isn't on the other two sections' walls, though. )

I hope this helps, and I'll keep poking around for a larger image, hopefully with more detail.

Dino.

[Kingpin]

I used that very same image to fill in the inner details of the Roundel.

It appears that the trapezoids are indents, much like the dimples on the 2005 console rim.

Indeed    The smaller inner line that I've drawn in the trapezoid marks the bottom of the indentation, denoting sloped sides that are usually used in moulding and part production.

Also, if you look at how that central amber dome is inset deeper than the sections that have the trapezoids in them, it appears - just a guess by how it looks - that the dimmer amber "glow" is simply the reflection of the central dome's light against the "walls" of the raised area around the dome.

(See the bottom of the roundel and notice at "6 o'clock" the shadow of the housing that surrounds the dome on the raised trapezoid section. Not sure why that shadow isn't on the other two sections' walls, though. )

Exactly! I did not intend to suggest the dimmer amber glow was a separate light source rather than from the central light.  The shadow from the housing has been cast by the white light positioned above the Roundel.


With the image having been lightened, I'm beginning to wonder if the central piece around the amber light might be an Anodised Green Hub, like this one from Bob's Bits (but with fewer in-cuts):




The holes in the middle of the normal Anodised Flanges on Bob's site look a little too big... and I could swear I can see that series of holes surrounding the central hole... but I'll be the first to say that I could actually be seeing something that isn't there, and my mind's just interpreting it to look like the hub (much like the Doctor's remark about seeing patterns that aren't there).

[expendable]

I've never heard of "Bob's Bits" before now.

http://www.bobsbits.tv/

Suddenly I want to win the lotto just so I can have a spending spree here.

The center sort of reminds me of a Chevy hubcap turned upside down.



Possibly this is the backside of some other hubcap or something similarly shaped.

[galacticprobe]

Exactly! I did not intend to suggest the dimmer amber glow was a separate light source rather than from the central light.

Ah... my misinterpretation there.

The shadow from the housing has been cast by the white light positioned above the Roundel.

Duh! I should have seen that, what with the white light reflecting off the top of the roundel. Again, I say !

With the image having been lightened, I'm beginning to wonder if the central piece around the amber light might be an Anodised Green Hub, like this one from Bob's Bits (but with fewer in-cuts):

If it is one of those anodized hubs, going from the detail that we can actually see around the central amber dome, my money is on the lower of the two in the image above. Good thinking on that one, Kingpin!

... and I could swear I can see that series of holes surrounding the central hole... but I'll be the first to say that I could actually be seeing something that isn't there, and my mind's just interpreting it to look like the hub (much like the Doctor's remark about seeing patterns that aren't there).

Well, the lower hub in the image you posted above does look like it has holes around the center opening, so I think you could be right if they did use a hub (or vac-formed replicas of one). I'm not saying that they did use one of those hubs as there are small "half-moon" details around the dome (on the hub they're inside the holes, and if the dome covered the holes, which is what it would look like as you described it, then you wouldn't see those half-moons). But that hub is a good contender for the center of the roundel as it has much of the details seen on that roundel. (Maybe the prop makers embellished it a little?)

You're definitely seeing "something" around the edge of that dome; no argument there. If what we're seeing isn't a series of holes, then perhaps the dome lens is fluted? That would give the same visual effect that we're seeing now. We need a clear image of a roundel with the amber dome in a dimmer mode to see if there is any fluting in the lens. (Plausible?)

I've been scouring the net for a better image, but so far nothing new or better than what's already posted here. (Still looking, though!)

As for the hubcap... That would have made a good roundel, but looking at the size of the actual roundel, that would have to be one big hubcap! (A different style of roundel... So, expendable, how many more of those hubcaps can you steal get your hands on? )

Dino.