Northolt Park Box

[petewilson]

Hi All,

Here's another quaint Photo....
Clues;  Bus 158 ran from Harrow Weald Bus Station.
The Bin states "Borough Of Harrow" and the date was 6th November 1960......
Ok Banzai you have 30 minutes to work this one out....

BTW I contacted PAIMAGES to try and buy a copy of the photograph but it's unable to be purchased in the UK for copyright reasons!!!
What is the point of advertising it then (apart from people like me to take a poor quality copy free!)

[DoctorWho8]

I've tried to tone down the watermark.

Bill "the Doctor" Rudloff

[Rassilons Rod]

How can a photo taken in the UK be unable to be purchased in the UK. Well ok, so that's a rhetorical question, but it's still ridiculous.

I bet they obtained the photo from someone else anyway.

Great quality anyway, despite the watermark

[domvar]

Because the real owner would be able to sue them in the uk.

I think it's x33 looking at the buildings I think the met list position is about 10 meters out

[hb88banzai]

This is what happens when I go to sleep 

Good photo. Can't find it on paimages.co.uk - what is the reference number?

The rights issue can get quite sticky depending on who the original owner was and who has already bought the current rights for a particular use and region, etc. I notice that their 1938 image of the Putney Bridge Box that you posted elsewhere can't be purchased outside the UK, for instance (and most unfortunately for me).

Domvar - I would agree, but the buildings on the other side of the road look to be original and all have shops on the ground floor that I can't see any sign of in the photo.

A similar POV shot at the location of X33 --

[domvar]

I think the shop fronts would have been added later looking at the style of the buildings they decided to sell off the ground floor flats as business properties to get higher rents.

[hb88banzai]

Always possible. Taking a closer look, however, it appears that the window casements don't match either, and the current ones appear more complex than the ones in the 1960 photo. Usually when things are changed they are simplified and modernized, yet these appear even more vintage now than they did then. In the 1960 photo there even appear to be some windows with mini balconies and/or extended sills - (look just behind and above the front of the bus and through the front windscreen).

The dividers for the shops at X33 appear to be older as well. Not sure such modifications done in the 60s or 70s would appear quite so vintage.

These observations could all be wrong (things can change a lot, and not always in the ways one would expect), but I think it warrants a look around at some of the other Harrow sites just to make sure, though there are quite a lot of them. Fortunately, I've already done site street views for most of them.

[hb88banzai]

I've found it. Looks to be X30 on Eastcote Lane in Northolt Park (another Harrow Box with a Siren).

Here are the buildings across the street from the Site of X30 --



Windows right up against the eves - variations in sills with height - balcony details - even the double chimneys match (as well as the chimney profiles being the same as opposed to them being a bit off at X33).

Here's the approximate Box Site URL per the Met List so you can take a look:  http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Holyrood+Avenue,+Northolt+Park,+London+UK&hl=en&ll=51.563426,-0.379758&spn=0.000027,0.017917&sll=51.563626,-0.320857&sspn=0.007683,0.016994&hnear=Holyrood+Ave&t=m&layer=c&cbll=51.559687,-0.379767&panoid=UO87bGhCnR3CFuAhHnwMCA&cbp=12,204.1,,0,10.95&z=16



Should be about where the left half of the Bus Stop is now, per the Met List, but if the Mail Box is anywhere near the same position as it was (noting that there is a Post Office on the corner) then the List is perhaps a bit off. Possibly just the other side of the Bus Stop - first the A.R.W. Siren Mast and its electrical box, then the Police Box.

[domvar]

I stand corrected well done

I think the position is a bit off as the post box is still there the attached stamp machine has been removed and a drop off box has been attached to the other side I doubt this has been moved as it is outside the post office.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Holyrood+Avenue,+Northolt+Park,+London+UK&hl=en&ll=51.559651,-0.379887&spn=0.010659,0.01929&sll=51.563626,-0.320857&sspn=0.007683,0.016994&hnear=Holyrood+Ave&t=m&layer=c&cbll=51.559559,-0.380081&panoid=4H1H8CKK8EF94Fnd5GryYQ&cbp=12,116.72,,1,26.66&z=16

[petewilson]

Good photo. Can't find it on paimages.co.uk - what is the reference number?

Banzai Well done in nailing down this box so promptly!!
The Reference number is PA.10150767

and the email I had about purchasing a clean copy...
Dear Mr Wilson,

Many thanks for your recent enquiry.

Unfortunately, due to copyright restrictions we are unable to sell this image as a personal print.

Best wishes,
Shalini

[hb88banzai]

Well, that's annoying. Nothing comes up when I do a search for that reference number.

Domvar - The Pillar Box has definitely been moved, it's just a question of how far and in what direction(s). The original picture shows it much closer to the curb than it's current location and the curb line has not changed per Google Earth (except that where the current "corner" is was cut off, being more rounded and gradual going into the circle just to the west of this location - at least back in 1945). Since the Pillar Box has been moved in the North-South direction, it is also possible it was moved a bit East-West as well.

Currently the Mail Box is on the western end of the Post Office location. My estimation is that it was more towards the eastern end of the Post Office space, which would mean the new street lamp is still fairly close to the original pole's position in the photo (it was closer to the curb and probably a bit more to the west) and the location of the Box would be essentially as described by me as a possible location instead of the one specified by the Met List.

I am not just going by the photo here, but also by the historical Google Earth image for 1945 which shows something that looks very much like it might be a Police Box at about 25 yards west of Holyrood instead of the Met List's specified 20 yards, and which would place it where I indicated it might have been - just to the west of the current Bus Stop (A.R.W. Siren and Box taken as one) rather than replacing the eastern half of it as the Met List would have us believe.

Also, in the 1960 photo it appears that the bus has just pulled out from the Bus Stop, the suggestion of which is visible just the other side of the A.R.W. Siren electrical box on the far side of the Police Box. If all the above is correct, the current Bus Stop is about the same position as it was back then, or possibly a little west of its original location.

The view I chose as a Site street view included all these locations (including yours) in one view to cover all bases. In short, if I had to roll the dice and fix on a location, my current opinion is it would have been about here --

URL: http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Holyrood+Avenue,+Northolt+Park,+London+UK&hl=en&ll=51.559657,-0.379888&spn=0.009018,0.02193&sll=51.563626,-0.320857&sspn=0.007683,0.016994&hnear=Holyrood+Ave&t=m&layer=c&cbll=51.559657,-0.379888&panoid=kZ4ERP-SYD27ILkgjHWsmg&cbp=12,181.32,,0,13.1&z=16



About center of view - western edge of the Police Box up against where the current street lamp pole is, but closer to the curb. The green trash bin would be about the same location as the bin in the photo, with the red Pillar Box about where the low street sign (labeled "Eastcote Lane") is now and the street lamp pole just the other side of where the traffic barrier closest to the current pole is.

Here's a better view of the layout in question (current Bus Stop out of frame on the left - edge about in line with the telephone) --



Quick note - It's been my experience that when the Met List is actually correct in its Site location yardage, it most often refers to the distance to the nearest edge of the Box rather than the middle of its base.

[starcross]

I came across a clean version of this photo, on http://www.policebox.uk/history/london/london.htm of all places.
Is it one of ours, or unaffiliated?

I'm sure I recognize most of the other photos on the page, but I'll leave that to everyone else to determine.

[scruffy57]

1960 Tardis photo from BBC America
Looks like a Siren by it. and we have a PO Box and the bus is a 158 to Ruislip.. route goes as shown 

[petewilson]

Hi scruffy57,

This is X30 Northolt Park


http://tardisbuilders.com/index.php?topic=4274

[scruffy57]

Bugger lol