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The Pale Green Console and Set

Started by tony farrell, Dec 07, 2012, 06:41 pm

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DoctorWho8

OK, here it is!
get-attachment (1).jpg
Bill "the Doctor" Rudloff

tony farrell

Thanks Bill.

I hope that I've done enough to convince everyone that the original Tardis Control Room set was (as described by Carole Ann Ford) a "very pale green".

We know from the Barry Newbery quote that TX32 was off-white (or 'television white') and we know from Rob that the colour specified for much of the Tardis' interior was TX40. TX40 is therefore this same 'very pale green'.

It's entirely conceivable that Mylands supplied the paints for the Tardis set (as they certainly did for much of the BBC's output) and it isn't a great 'leap' of logic to therefore assert that their 'Silvan Green' is what the BBC called TX40.

I'm rather pleased to have finally tied the Tardis' colour scheme down!  :)

Tony

kert gantry

Quote from: Tony Farrell on May 28, 2013, 10:48 pm

I hope that I've done enough to convince everyone that the original Tardis Control Room set was (as described by Carole Ann Ford) a "very pale green".


I'm rather pleased to have finally tied the Tardis' colour scheme down!  :)

Tony


You certainly have and without wishing to guild the lilly, here's a bit of the set under more subdued lighting conditions.  You can see how much greener it looks. 

AST2darkcrop.jpg

tony farrell

Cheers Tom.
The roundels look almost blue in this (certainly when compared to your previous photo). I wonder if this is meant to represent a night-time exterior (rather like they did when Susan collects the anti-radiation drugs from "The Ship" and Skaro's lightning can be seen illuminating the roundels)?
Still, the Tardis set is very definitely green.
Now, if we could just 'pin down' the console's measurements..... ;D
Tony

tony farrell

Aug 15, 2013, 08:38 pm #124 Last Edit: Aug 16, 2013, 01:42 am by Tony Farrell
Thanks to Marc for pointing me towards this.

A bit more information for fact fans:

TX32 = "television white"/off-white - source Barry Newbery (Documentary on Aztecs Special Edition DVD).
TX35 = dark (Tardis) blue - source Rescue and Romans DVD (PDF for 3rd scale model Tardis plans).
TX38 = pale blue/white - source Rescue and Romans DVD (PDF for 3rd scale model Tardis, St John's Ambulance wide border).
TX39 = slate grey(?) - source Rescue and Romans DVD (PDF for 3rd scale model Tardis, St John's Ambulance narrow/inner border).  
TX40 = pale (Silvan) green - source BBC Tardis Interior set plans (courtesy of Rob49152).

3rd scale box plans.png
3rd scale box detail.png
And from The Space Museum - the model Tardis dirtied down:
3rd scale police box.png

galacticprobe

Aug 16, 2013, 12:53 am #125 Last Edit: Aug 16, 2013, 12:53 am by galacticprobe
It looks like it's time for me to adjust my graphic for the Hartnell St. John logo. (Color-wise, that is; there was never any wording seen on the screen used prop's logo, so I'm not going to add the words. Also, it's strange that they would specify "St Johns Ambulance Brigade" when it's always been "St. John Ambulance Association" on the London Met Boxes, which is what the TARDIS was supposedly based on.)

Dino.
"What's wrong with being childish?! I like being childish." -3rd Doctor, "Terror of the Autons"

Rassilons Rod

These scale model plans made my day when I spotted them :)
In the cities in the streets there's a tension you can feel,
The breaking strain is fast approaching, guns and riots.
Politicians gamble and lie to save their skins,
And the press get fed the scapegoats,
Public Enema Number One.

mechanoid

Interestingly, from the plans for the model above, TX40 is specified for the window frames and the background of the phone panel.

galacticprobe

Aug 20, 2013, 04:58 am #128 Last Edit: Aug 20, 2013, 05:13 am by galacticprobe
Indeed... Very interesting <said in my best Arte Johnson impersonation>. Especially interesting when you look at what color is described for TX40:
Quote from: Tony Farrell on Aug 15, 2013, 08:38 pmTX40 = pale (Silvan) green - source BBC Tardis Interior set plans (courtesy of Rob49152).

and you consider that in all of the color publicity photos of the Hartnell TARDIS the window frames and PTO panel background are clearly white. One would think since they were filming in B&W that they'd use TX40 on all the TARDIS Police Box props. Of course it is also possible that in B&W the colors would be so similar that one couldn't tell the difference in color, given the resolution of the cameras, film, and TV sets back then. And yet, the color photo of the props in Tony's post above (blue window frames aside) does show the PTO panel background as white. (Same goes for the white circle of the St. John logo.)

I also suppose, since they were taking color publicity photos of the TARDIS, that most people of the period would've thought it quite odd if a "Police Box" had a pale green phone panel and like window frames. (Hmm... I think I might've just solved my own vexation on this. See? Talking to oneself does have its advantages! ;))

Dino.
"What's wrong with being childish?! I like being childish." -3rd Doctor, "Terror of the Autons"

Rassilons Rod

Also, looking again, the plans talk about the replacement lamp and "fixing any damaged wood". That part of the PDF also lists the overall dimensions for the full size prop as 4'6 for the base and 9' high.

Not sure how that compares to Tony's as I'm posting from my phone. I don't think it could necessarily  make Tony wrong though, I just mention it for completeness :-)
In the cities in the streets there's a tension you can feel,
The breaking strain is fast approaching, guns and riots.
Politicians gamble and lie to save their skins,
And the press get fed the scapegoats,
Public Enema Number One.

markofrani

I've only just discovered these plans as well, and what is interesting is that it looks like the 1/3 scale Police Box model for 'The Romans' seems to have been based on the original plans for the full size Police Box prop. The drawing of the full size prop on these 'Rescue/Romans' plans must have been referenced from the original Brachacki drawings done for the Pilot (The inclusion of the two door handles that were subsequently removed from the prop could indicate this). For some reason the original prop was not built (or was altered) to these specs, and I wondered if this might be due to the mention in the 'Origins' documentary on the 'Edge Of Destruction' DVD, "that during the very first test filming at Lime Grove Studio D, it was discovered that the Police Box was too big for the scenery lift". Maybe at this point, before even the filming at Ealing, the prop was altered by reducing the depth of each side to 4" under the last recessed panel. The model as drawn and as built had a larger depth than the screen-used full size prop.

tony farrell

Aug 20, 2013, 06:22 pm #131 Last Edit: Aug 20, 2013, 08:26 pm by Tony Farrell
Quote from: galacticprobe on Aug 20, 2013, 04:58 am
Indeed... Very interesting <said in my best Arte Johnson impersonation>. Especially interesting when you look at what color is described for TX40:
Quote from: Tony Farrell on Aug 15, 2013, 08:38 pmTX40 = pale (Silvan) green - source BBC Tardis Interior set plans (courtesy of Rob49152).

and you consider that in all of the color publicity photos of the Hartnell TARDIS the window frames and PTO panel background are clearly white. One would think since they were filming in B&W that they'd use TX40 on all the TARDIS Police Box props. Of course it is also possible that in B&W the colors would be so similar that one couldn't tell the difference in color, given the resolution of the cameras, film, and TV sets back then. And yet, the color photo of the props in Tony's post above (blue window frames aside) does show the PTO panel background as white. (Same goes for the white circle of the St. John logo.)

I also suppose, since they were taking color publicity photos of the TARDIS, that most people of the period would've thought it quite odd if a "Police Box" had a pale green phone panel and like window frames. (Hmm... I think I might've just solved my own vexation on this. See? Talking to oneself does have its advantages! ;))

Dino.


I can see where you're coming from Dino but we know the console and walls were pale green (TX40/Silvan Green) and we also know this green apparently 'changes' colour depending on the lighting/colour grading of the film used.

bill.pngpat.png

Colour grading could also affect how we see the colours on the model Police Box (or for that matter the publicity shot of Mr Hartnell outside his ship. The other explanation is that Shawcraft didn't follow the design specs given to them by Mr Cusick (which would be odd given the plans state "as discussed" with Shawcraft).
Drifting away from discussing colours, Jonathan, I always thought it was a myth that the Police Box prop didn't fit in the goods lift at Lime Grove.... Studio 'D' was on the third floor - if the goods lift was that small, how did they transport the Tardis' internal 3D walls (they're over ten feet tall)?
Tony

tony farrell

To return to colours, if you have a look at this - posted by Sensidale - the phone panel appears to be a different colour to the frame.
pilot.png
So, one or the other (or perhaps both) weren't pure white!
T

markofrani

RomansModel_zpsd7a74b35.jpg

I think Shawcraft for some reason did not follow the plans. Firstly they did not apply "tx40" to the window frames, but painted them blue (tx35) to match the rest of the model. Secondly the recessed panels seem larger than the ones drawn and are also more like 1" apart replicating more the full size prop where the gap was 3". There is also a wrongly noted measurement (5.5")on the drawing which I've circled. The door handles were not included presumably because they weren't on the full size prop. The pic on the right is the same model used on location for Troughton's 'Fury From the Deep' story.

TheRescueDesignDrawings_detail_zps7f403dc4.jpg

Tony, re the myth; I think you're right, its just that this was specifically mentioned in the DVD extra in what was otherwise an accurate account of the origins of Dr Who. I suppose I thought it might have given some explanation as to why there are discrepancies in the drawings against the actual Brachacki Police Box prop. However I take your point, that any lift would have to have taken all the scenery, which was much taller than the Tardis.

Rassilons Rod

Speaking of myths, Fraser Hines also talked about a 'Traveling TARDIS', which we know isn't actually true. The cast don't have totally infallible memories ;)

These plans also say (something like) "weather and dirty down to match full size prop".... The full size didn't get blue frames until the War Machines ...
In the cities in the streets there's a tension you can feel,
The breaking strain is fast approaching, guns and riots.
Politicians gamble and lie to save their skins,
And the press get fed the scapegoats,
Public Enema Number One.