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The Pale Green Console and Set

Started by tony farrell, Dec 07, 2012, 06:41 pm

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tony farrell

Dec 07, 2012, 06:41 pm Last Edit: Dec 08, 2012, 11:31 pm by Scarfwearer
Here is my proposed colour scheme for the Scanner/down-lighter assembly and Fault Locator wall.

20121002063142 (2 coloured).pngfault final.png

Well, this thread needs a bit of colour!  ;D

Rassilons Rod

In the cities in the streets there's a tension you can feel,
The breaking strain is fast approaching, guns and riots.
Politicians gamble and lie to save their skins,
And the press get fed the scapegoats,
Public Enema Number One.

tony farrell

Dec 07, 2012, 08:09 pm #2 Last Edit: Dec 07, 2012, 09:12 pm by Tony Farrell
Yep, an eggshell or sheen finish would look good!

Rassilons Rod

Where's this photo you promised to illustrate the idea? ;)
In the cities in the streets there's a tension you can feel,
The breaking strain is fast approaching, guns and riots.
Politicians gamble and lie to save their skins,
And the press get fed the scapegoats,
Public Enema Number One.

tony farrell

Patience Marc, patience!!

Depending on how the console was lit and depending on the cameras' colour balance, it can seem to change colour from an almost minty green to an off-white or even cream. These snaps are from "Inferno":

inferno.jpgInferno-1.jpgInferno2.jpgInferno-2.jpgInferno-3.jpg

In this still, from (I think) The Toymaker, there is nothing to choose between the colour of the console and the colour of the walls.

hartnell.jpg

The next couple are from "Power of the Daleks": In the first, the console is plainly green.

EE-004.JPG

In the second, the console's upright edge - against which Patrick is leaning - appears to be the same colour as the walls.

hi000411146.jpgtroughton-console.jpgtrougp08.jpg

These pictures - along with Carole Ann Ford's statement - lead me to believe that the walls were indeed a very pale green, the same colour as the console.

Tony 

markofrani

Everything's really coming together now Tony. Fantastic!

Just wanted to chip in about the colour. This pic shows that apart from the pale green, it does look like that the edge of the console was a cream colour at least in the early Troughton era, so maybe other areas may have been an off white as well?

Console_Edge_Close-2.jpg

galacticprobe

Dec 08, 2012, 01:03 am #6 Last Edit: Dec 08, 2012, 01:08 am by galacticprobe
If you look closely at the first three Troughton photos above, you'll notice only that one edge is a "cream" color; the edge next to it is the same pale green color as the rest of the console.

Now looking at the close-up photo of that edge (with the large lever on the panel) the panel is clearly pale green, but that edge almost looks like the color of bare wood, or wood that's been given a primer or sealer coat. (Judging by the scuff marks on it, it could be bare wood, or wood that's been left primed for a while.)

This makes me think that this one edge was being repaired, and the props people 1) didn't have time to get the green paint onto it before filming; or 2) couldn't exactly match the green paint on the rest of the console (remember they didn't have computer color-matching back then) and decided not to paint it, believing that the color difference wouldn't be noticed on the B&W film/tape. (They could have tested that out and noticed the color difference wasn't noticeable, and so left it.) If they repaired that edge and didn't have time to get it painted, it's also possible that with the pace at which the series was filmed, that edge was left alone (forgotten about?) as time wore on, and no one noticed the color difference while reviewing the "Dailies", and thus said nothing about it.

Are there any glimpses of this side of the console in "Inferno"? If so, it would show the color of that edge, and whether or not it's still the same "cream" color.

Dino.
"What's wrong with being childish?! I like being childish." -3rd Doctor, "Terror of the Autons"

meantimebob

Quote from: markofrani on Dec 07, 2012, 11:40 pm
Everything's really coming together now Tony. Fantastic!

Just wanted to chip in about the colour. This pic shows that apart from the pale green, it does look like that the edge of the console was a cream colour at least in the early Troughton era, so maybe other areas may have been an off white as well?

Console_Edge_Close-2.jpg


You know, to my eyes, it looks like the green panels were actually thin sheets of metal, screwed onto a wooden hexagon below. Could that be possible? The metal (probably aluminium) patches slapped on for the Pertwee era show that such materials were in use and available. Just look at how much battering the white wooden rim has taken whereas you only ever see paint streaks on the green area, apart from the panel dividers which are separate pieces. It would make the entire prop a whole lot lighter than if it was entirely wood. Worth considering?

Rassilons Rod

Dec 08, 2012, 08:38 am #8 Last Edit: Dec 08, 2012, 08:39 am by rassilonsrod
Quote from: Tony Farrell on Dec 07, 2012, 09:09 pm
In this still, from (I think) The Toymaker, there is nothing to choose between the colour of the console and the colour of the walls.
hartnell.jpg


I brought this still into Photoshop and did a quick test with the colour dropper. I chose this photo precisely because the console and the walls do look pretty close in colour.

The walls come out as: anything between b9bab0 and d8d1c9.
The console as: ebe4d9

It's not a definitive test, but I would say that it's relatively clear that the console has more green in it than the walls. The walls (especially being white) can be affected by studio lighting so at the moment, I'm not *totally* convinced that the walls were green...

That said, I do find the Fault Locator in green to be rather pleasing on the eye - I like the continuity of the controls :)
In the cities in the streets there's a tension you can feel,
The breaking strain is fast approaching, guns and riots.
Politicians gamble and lie to save their skins,
And the press get fed the scapegoats,
Public Enema Number One.

kert gantry

Dec 08, 2012, 12:06 pm #9 Last Edit: Dec 08, 2012, 12:11 pm by kert gantry
Quote from: rassilonsrod on Dec 08, 2012, 08:38 am


The walls (especially being white) can be affected by studio lighting so at the moment, I'm not *totally* convinced that the walls were green...




The walls definitely weren't pure white, at least to begin with.  The colour looks relatively dark against the original roundel inlays, which I'm assuming were white.  At the moment I'm tending towards a watered down version of the console green for the walls.  

 A-2_1+6_01.jpg

I'm also inclined to believe Carole Ann Ford - she was there for a year, so it's not like this is the mis-remembered 50 year-old anecdote of an actress who only did one episode.

tony farrell

Dec 08, 2012, 12:19 pm #10 Last Edit: Dec 08, 2012, 01:03 pm by Tony Farrell
Thanks guys - there's nothing like a bit of 'controversy' on a Saturday morning!

Meantimebob - you make a very good point. I know that Celation has used plywood in his magnificent reproduction of he original console but, looking at the photo, the control panels do indeed look remarkable thin (as far as I know, from ten years in the DIY trade, an eighth of an inch is the smallest imperial thickness that plywood was available in). Certainly thin metal panels would be more durable than plywood but then you'd still need a sub-frame to provide rigidity and on which to mount the various controls, meters, lamps etc. Those big round meters would be heavy, without some sort of sub-frame wouldn't a thin metal panel have too much flex in it to support that amount of weight? Perhaps Celation would like to comment on this point?

Dino, as always, you make some well observed points. Looking closely, the upright edge does indeed look to be a slightly creamier colour than the rest of the console - maybe, as you say, this part of the console had been repaired/repainted by this stage in its history (after all it had acquired metal trims around the base 'fins' by this point in time). Sadly, Dino, I can't find any colour photos/screen grabs from Inferno which show the same panel... Anyone else out there care to 'have a go'?

Markofrani/Jonathan - its good to hear from you again. I'm glad you are enjoying the thread. I had to look twice at your close-up picture as, at first sight, the edge looks almost peach in colour! It just goes to show how much different lighting/different film stock/different camera exposure can alter what we perceive to be the case.

Marc, I too have looked at the photo of Hartnell and have done the same thing as you but using 'Paint'. I've taken the colours of the console at the points marked 1, 2 and 3; this gives the following 'co-ordinates' on the spectrum: At point 1 - red=206, green=207, blue=199. At point 2 - red= 240, green=230 and blue=218. At point 3, red=187, green=193 and blue=181. Doing the same thing for the wall: At point A red=208, green=205 and blue is 196. At B red=198, green=194 and blue=191. At C, red=182, green=189 and blue=195.

The average co-ordinates on the spectrum for the console therefore are red=211, green=210 and blue is 199. For the wall, the averages are red=196, green=197 and blue is 194.  

hartnell (1a).jpg

This means that there really isn't that much difference between the colour of the console and the colour of the wall - the console is just slightly darker. Carole Ann Ford's assertion that the walls were a "very, very, pale green" does actually seem to hold true. And, as Marc says, it's pleasing to use the same colour scheme throughout!

Regards

Tony

P.S., Marc - I'm really looking forward to seeing more of your renders!  ;)

tony farrell



The walls definitely weren't pure white, at least to begin with.  The colour looks relatively dark against the original roundel inlays, which I'm assuming were white.  At the moment I'm tending towards a watered down version of the console green for the walls.  

 A-2_1+6_01.jpg

I'm also inclined to believe Carole Ann Ford - she was there for a year, so it's not like this is the mis-remembered 50 year-old anecdote of an actress who only did one episode.
[/quote]

I think, Kert, that we've both arrived at the same conclusion - walls a slightly paler version of the console's colour.

Tony

celation

Yeah - I'll put in my two pence worth, if you like. :)

Personally I don't really see a reason why the console would be painted a different colour to the walls. It was the policy at the time to paint things as "off-white" because otherwise they would flare out on the camera. Occam's razor comes into effect for me. Unless there's a good reason to think the colours were different - I assume that they weren't.

Same thing with the console panels. You can see in the picture of Ben and Polly leaning against the console in Power that it's made of some kind of ply - or more likely blockboard which was more commonly used than thicker ply at the time, I think. It's what the neck rings of the Daleks were made from. It certainly looks like two thin sheets of wood sandwiching a thicker core. Seems like blockboard to me.

benPollyConsolePower.jpg

Anyway - I can't see them going to the trouble of drilling though a ply or blockboard base for the positions of all the components, then making an exact duplicate in aluminium and attaching that over the top. Why bother, when the ply/block will happily last the year that the series is expected to run for?
There are also a few shots from Inferno and others where you can see paint streaks/wood grain. etc.
Also - there's the story of the Radiation Panel breaking between Ambassadors and Inferno. This is highly likely if the panels were made of blockboard, which has join lines running through it (compare to the broken Dalek neck ring of the sixties) - but very unlikely if they were clad in metal.

As far as the white edge is concerned, I agree with Dino. I imagine that the edges got a fair battering over the years. With a big control room scene in TP4/Power, they probably decided to give it a spruce and filled/sanded/primed, but didn't have time to paint or perhaps didn't see the need. Complete guess of course.

The edge colour matches the main console both before and after this - so it was obviously only a temporary state.

tony farrell

Dec 08, 2012, 04:21 pm #13 Last Edit: Dec 08, 2012, 11:40 pm by Scarfwearer
Thanks Celation - looking at the photo I can see what you mean about the thin and wide layers (the edge of the hole where the missing ventilation cover should sit). This does indeed seem to show a block board construction for the console.

<snip>

The photos I've posted show that there is virtually no difference between the colour of the console from the colour of the walls - the average 'position' of the colours in the 'spectrum' indicate the walls are fractionally paler than the console but this may be just how they've been lit. I come back to the photos from Inferno - sometimes the console appears distinctly green, in others it appears cream or 'off-white'. If, as you say Celation, there would be no reason for the walls to be a different colour from the console, then, there is nothing in any of these photos to contradict Carole Ann Ford's statement that the walls were a "very, very, pale green".

Tony

DoctorWho8

Claws of Axos, Colony in Space, and Curse of Peladon all use the original walls, so I would look at screen caps of those to get a better idea of the wall colors.
Bill "the Doctor" Rudloff