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Main Space-time Element Plans

Started by warmcanofcoke, Nov 21, 2012, 03:01 am

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warmcanofcoke

Nov 21, 2012, 03:01 am Last Edit: Nov 21, 2012, 02:02 pm by warmcanofcoke
Well I still want a Time Element. looks like I need to make my own plans.
from these screen captures
TimeElement.jpg
I have made an initial set of plans. More detail need to be added to it but I hope I might get some insight and feedback.
TimeElement-1.jpg
There is a spiral wire around the lower plastic poles and some gold circuitry details on the inside of of the tinted boxes. So much to do. I wish I had a set of original plans.... or better images ... oh well.

I think the tinted boxes are probably similar to these boxes.
http://www.tapplastics.com/product/plastics/plastic_containers/colored_plastic_boxes/220
Plastic_Box_Colored_M105-xl.jpg

first attempt for creating the Circuitry pattern.
TimeElement-1part1.jpg
continued ....
TimeElement-1part2A.jpg
why doesn't the Guide mention them? - Oh, it's not very accurate.
Oh? - I'm researching the new edition.

warmcanofcoke

Nov 21, 2012, 04:46 am #1 Last Edit: Nov 21, 2012, 06:00 am by warmcanofcoke
still trying to fathom the design from the screen captures.
TimeElement-1part4.jpg
why doesn't the Guide mention them? - Oh, it's not very accurate.
Oh? - I'm researching the new edition.

galacticprobe

Nov 21, 2012, 05:20 am #2 Last Edit: Nov 21, 2012, 05:23 am by galacticprobe
Good luck with this one, Nate. Your eyes are already picking out more details from those grabs than mine are able to. The only detail I really know about it is that tube in top: filled half way with red-colored water, the other half way with light-weight oil (like baby oil?) to get that slow wave motion.

I would also love to see the plans for this thing, even the concept art would be helpful, I should think. Since this prop is before 2005 we should be safe if someone does have a sketch of something to post. (Has anyone checked on the RPF or WhoProps?)

Dino.
"What's wrong with being childish?! I like being childish." -3rd Doctor, "Terror of the Autons"

warmcanofcoke

Nov 21, 2012, 06:06 am #3 Last Edit: Nov 21, 2012, 12:41 pm by warmcanofcoke
I hope my eyes aren't playing tricks on me. I currently think the pattern looks like this:
TimeElement-1part5.jpg

Edit: I believe that inside the base of the two tinted boxes there may be a 1980s style fat resister or two judging from the screen caps. Very similar to the ones used to make the Temporal Stabilizer in Planet of Fire.
TemperalStabilizer.jpg

Edit - Looks like I'm a member of Whoprops already ... I must have forgotten.
why doesn't the Guide mention them? - Oh, it's not very accurate.
Oh? - I'm researching the new edition.

warmcanofcoke

Nov 21, 2012, 01:50 pm #4 Last Edit: Nov 21, 2012, 01:57 pm by warmcanofcoke
After looking at the screen grabs again I see the base plate has a notch on either side of the Boxes. The Center of the base plate is thinner than when it is under the boxes. Also for the completests, I have updated the drawings to also depict the Time Element with the Recall Circuit - Circuit tubes in place.  
TimeElement-1part6.jpg
why doesn't the Guide mention them? - Oh, it's not very accurate.
Oh? - I'm researching the new edition.

galacticprobe

Nov 21, 2012, 02:22 pm #5 Last Edit: Nov 21, 2012, 02:39 pm by galacticprobe
Nate, after looking at the photo at the top again (with Maxil holding the S-T Element), it looks like that Recall Circuit is actually a silvery coil wrapped around a large tube/cylinder connecting the two boxes together. At first I thought it was part of Maxil's chest plate, but when I enlarged the photo (not much or it started pixelating) you can see that in the three positions he holds it in, that cylinder changes position with the Element; its diameter is slightly smaller than the box and is definitely connecting the two boxes. (And if you look closely, that coil there are only two "bands" of it showing, and it doesn't extend over the top of the boxes, so your Recall Circuit drawing has the coil just a bit large.)

Not sure what that cylinder might be made of (some sort of plastic) but it certainly does look like it's frosted, and then has that silver - almost chrome-looking - coil wrapped around it. And I can't tell if that silvery thing is actually a coil, or just two "rings" slipped over that cylinder. If it is a coil I can't see where the ends of it connect with the boxes, so maybe they are just two "loops"? (BTW, just me, but I sort of like the look of it having that Recall Circuit. It gives the prop more of a complex look, and it could also add some serious structural stability to it.)

Dino.
"What's wrong with being childish?! I like being childish." -3rd Doctor, "Terror of the Autons"

warmcanofcoke

Nov 21, 2012, 03:10 pm #6 Last Edit: Nov 21, 2012, 03:36 pm by warmcanofcoke
I'm not sure about that. The Diagram of the Tubes doesn't show them hanging from their lowest position.
In this image from Terminus we see the tubes in a higher elevation.
terminus.jpg
I think the sizing is correct. The Height of the placement is variable.
There may be an additional rod that connects the tubes so they don't sway back and forth - it is hard to make out. I will check the Arc of Infinity DVD once again.

However the "silver shine" that I can see from the Maxil images is the light shining through the clear plastic rod that transfixes the central portion of the element.


Edit: looking at the above image I'm not sure they are tubes ... they may be clear plastic napkin rings - they may even be attached to a clear plastic ring that is inside the napkin ring to keep the rings in place. ... Time to watch some DVDs after work
why doesn't the Guide mention them? - Oh, it's not very accurate.
Oh? - I'm researching the new edition.

warmcanofcoke

Nov 22, 2012, 12:15 am #7 Last Edit: Nov 22, 2012, 12:24 am by warmcanofcoke
Before I can design better plans I'll need better images to work from.
Terminus
terminus001.jpg
terminus002.jpg
terminus003.jpg
terminus004.jpg
terminus005.jpg
terminus000.jpg

The quickly made Mock up used earlier in Terminus because the Original prop was at the Doctor Who exhibition.
TerminusFake.jpg
why doesn't the Guide mention them? - Oh, it's not very accurate.
Oh? - I'm researching the new edition.

warmcanofcoke

Nov 22, 2012, 12:33 am #8 Last Edit: Nov 22, 2012, 12:36 am by warmcanofcoke
Glad I checked

The Reverse side of the Element has a different set of circuit paths on it.
ArcinTardis.jpg
ArcinTardis000.jpg
why doesn't the Guide mention them? - Oh, it's not very accurate.
Oh? - I'm researching the new edition.

warmcanofcoke

Nov 22, 2012, 01:27 am #9 Last Edit: Nov 22, 2012, 02:00 am by warmcanofcoke
Revised Plans 1.0
TimeElementrevised.jpg

It may not be possible to create a 100% accurate set of plans. It may be that each side of the prop has a different circuit diagram. Unfortunately we only see a few sides of the prop.

I do recommend to look at the prop on a large television to see the different characteristics that are not fully captured in the screen captures.
why doesn't the Guide mention them? - Oh, it's not very accurate.
Oh? - I'm researching the new edition.

galacticprobe

Nov 22, 2012, 04:54 am #10 Last Edit: Nov 22, 2012, 05:21 am by galacticprobe
I see what you mean, Nate. Those coils/rings are sitting much higher in "Terminus" than they are in "Infinity". Here they are lightened as far as I could lighten them without them getting grainy. (I've also cropped them to save space since the originals are already posted above. Hopefully the lightened images will - pardon the pun - shed some light on the 'circuitry' details.)

ArcinTardis(lightened).jpgterminus001(lightened).jpg
                                    "Arc of Infinity"                                                                         "Terminus"

They obviously reworked the prop for "Terminus". But I do see what you mean about those rings (after yet another eye-straining look at the images of Maxil holding it!). Strange that you should mention the possibility of them being napkin holders as that was the first thing I thought they might be (should have put that in my last post!) and knowing the BBC's budget for 'Who' in those days they could very well have been just that.

Going with the napkin ring theory, maybe what we've got for that Recall Circuit is a set of five rings forming that circuit: three clear/slightly frosted, and two silver/chrome, alternating clear-silver-clear-silver-clear, all glued end to end to make the Recall Circuit cylinder. (Napkin rings do come in those colors, and at least to my eyes the "clear" ones on the prop look a bit frosted, and the other two look chrome.)

Not sure what they've done with the outer ends of that cylinder. In "Terminus" where it sits much higher they may have put bits of frosted plastic on them so you couldn't see through the cylinder. I'm guessing that in "Infinity" it wasn't a necessity as the boxes on the ends covered them nicely, though in both cases of the prop being shown, it looks like the ends of that cylinder are butted up against the end boxes.

Your latest rendition of the S-T Element looks great. Hopefully the above info will help you refine your design even more.

Dino.
"What's wrong with being childish?! I like being childish." -3rd Doctor, "Terror of the Autons"

warmcanofcoke

Nov 22, 2012, 02:30 pm #11 Last Edit: Nov 22, 2012, 03:50 pm by warmcanofcoke
Thanks for sticking to your guns. I didn't see it at first.
so we think it looks more like this?

Revised Plans 1.8
TimeElementrevised18.jpg
base.jpg
Thanks for the help.

P.S. I don't think the prop was reworked exactly in Terminus I think when they put the prop in the box the rings were pushed up and didn't fall during recording. lol

terminus002.jpg

in this image we can see the rings have an opening to slip on the the center rod and that the opening appears on the left side of the unit in the above image- it way have been caught on a nail in the set and that is why it is pushed upward in Terminus



P.P.S. - instead of napkin rings they could alternatively be shower curtain rings.
why doesn't the Guide mention them? - Oh, it's not very accurate.
Oh? - I'm researching the new edition.

galacticprobe

Nov 23, 2012, 05:54 am #12 Last Edit: Nov 23, 2012, 05:55 am by galacticprobe
Shower curtain rings? Very plausible, Nate. Judging by the size of the prop in Maxil's hands, both napkin and shower curtain rings do come in that size. The seam in the shower curtain rings could have been placed at the bottom so it wouldn't be visible, but then there is that "snap-lock notch" that locks the curtain rings together and in the clear ones, even frosted, that would be visible. I don't see that snap-lock in those rings so my money is on the napkin rings, at least for the actual prop.

For a replica, as we all know, we make do with what we can find, and shower curtain rings could be easier to locate in those colors than napkin rings. (As always, when you're looking for something, you can never find it!)

As for "sticking to my guns"? ??? I like to think of it more as "continually scrutinizing details as a prop's nuances are debated." There were things I didn't see in this prop until you pointed other things out, and I think it also went vice-versa. And now I think you've just about nailed it in your diagram this time! It looks spot on!

Dino.
"What's wrong with being childish?! I like being childish." -3rd Doctor, "Terror of the Autons"

warmcanofcoke

Nov 23, 2012, 03:19 pm #13 Last Edit: Nov 25, 2012, 12:56 am by warmcanofcoke
I just meant that your input is always greatly appreciated. And thank you my friend.  ;)

so now I want to figure out the potential dimensions to this prop.
I don't have the dimensions of Colin Baker's fingers off hand. (sorry for the pun.) I do follow Colin Baker
@SawbonesHex on twitter but I think asking him this question might lead to confusion.  :P

So I'll be trying to figure out the dimensions using my own hand.
fingers.jpg

so a question: looking at posts on the dimensions of the TYJ Tardis police box of the 1980s I see there is some question about weather the prop was made using imperial measurements vs Metric. Would the S-TE plans be better served in Metric or Imperial measurements?

the boxes pictured in the first post come in the following sizes
M510: 1 1/4"  x 1 1/4"  x  2 1/2"
M511: 1 x 1"  x  3/4"
M512: 1 x 2"  x  3/4"
M515: 1 3/16"  x 1 3/16"  x 3 1/8"
M522: 2"  x  2"  x  3/4"
M530: 1 5/8"  x 1 5/8"  x  2 7/8"
M531: 1 7/16"  x  1 7/16"  x  3 5/16" (not shown)
M100: 2 5/16"  x  2 5/16"  x  4 3/16"
M102: 2 5/16"  x  2 5/16"  x  6 3/16"
M103: 3 1/2"  x   3 1/2"  x  6 5/16"
M105: 4"  x 4"  x  7 1/4"

I think the M100: 2 5/16"  x  2 5/16"  x  4 3/16" are about the right size.
why doesn't the Guide mention them? - Oh, it's not very accurate.
Oh? - I'm researching the new edition.

Mark

Hi Nate,

I really can't keep up with what you are building at what moment in time - is it a console, a small console an earlier console....

Anyway, all of the projects you have going on look as though they will all turn out as things of beauty.

I just thought I'd add a quick thought I've just had, maybe the rings are kids bangles? They look a tad small for adults but this was the 80's and they do look to me like an 80's fashion accessory.

Might give you an extra avenue to search to get the right parts. Hope it helps.