Abbey Wood Station Box

[hb88banzai]

The Box on Harrow Manor Way (formerly Station Road) in Abbey Wood, 50 yards south of Abbey Wood Station, just south of the forecourt to the Abbey Arms P.H. -- R12


Pictures taken in September 1968 during flooding - the Box as it appeared less than two years before its removal.

Looking up Harrow Manor Way (now Wilton Road) towards Abbey Wood Station (the control house visible on the far left is just the other side of the tracks, with the entrance to the station just out of frame on this side of them) --




Looking back down Harrow Manor Way towards Abbey Wood Road --

[hb88banzai]

Turning Harrow Manor Way into a raised highway changed a lot of things in this area, but this street was largely spared, probably due to its being the primary access route to Abbey Wood Station. The street name was changed, however, to Wilton Road.

Current street View for the first photo (the new Abbey Wood Station at the end of the street) --



Street view for the second photo --



Here is the view of the Box Site with the alley on the left and the corner it creates being the one next to the Box in the photos --



Box Site Street View URL:  http://maps.google.co.uk/?ll=51.490467,0.121349&spn=0.00177,0.007499&t=m&layer=c&cbll=51.490467,0.121349&panoid=hXX0PLhnUj2KnTScA1XlMQ&cbp=11,304.25,,0,15.45&z=17

[hb88banzai]

Well, some interesting things about this Box.

First off, I've renamed the Topic to something more descriptive - from Harrow Manor Way Box to Abbey Wood Station Box, especially apropos considering it was only about 50 yards south of the station.

This is what the station looked like in September 1970, essentially unchanged since the turn of the century --



Station entrance building is on the left, with the elevated control house across the tracks on the right. The Abbey Arms P.H. was just to the left of the station (out of frame), with the Box just of bit further south of the pub.

Here are the OS Maps that show the Box's position:

From the 1957-1958 OS Map (marked PCB at centre of map) --



From the 1967-1968 OS Map --



Latitude/Longitude:   51.490524, 0.121253
OS Grid Reference:   547364, 178975

And here is a street view with the Box's location marked by the red pointer (part of the Abbey Arms visible on the right) --



Quite literally, X marks the spot!  

URL:  http://maps.google.com/maps?q=51.490524,+0.121253&hl=en&ll=51.490776,0.121338&spn=0.000007,0.005161&sll=51.490515,0.12134&sspn=0.000589,0.001291&t=m&z=18&layer=c&cbll=51.490515,0.121341&panoid=3ccdAdgDqCHgckPkiz-TVg&cbp=12,279.59,,0,14.43

Now things get a bit interesting. It seems this was not the first Met Box here. R12 was one of those Boxes that was preceded by a Police Telephone Box. It was positioned about 75 yards south of the concrete box's location, just up from the corner of Abbey Wood Road and Harrow Manor Way, though the latter was called Station Road at the time.

Here it is circa 1905, not long after being installed (Abbey Wood Station visible at the end of the street) --



Current street view from about the same POV --



A higher res closeup --



A shot from the other direction (source claims circa 1915 based on a postmark on the postcard, but I'd probably place it a bit earlier due to the lighter colour of the Box (white?), but still after 1908 as that is when the Tram route to Abbey Wood was inaugurated) --



Ironically, the above shot was taken from just about the position of the later concrete Box.  

Blowup --



Another view from the south looking towards Station Road, a bit later as evidenced by the darker colour --



The darker colour was presumably paint (blue?), though some hand-tinted postcards of these boxes show them as dark varnished or stained wood, but take that as you will as the Tinter may not have had any first hand knowledge. The roofs after about 1903, as here, look to have been metal sheathing over wood, possibly using copper. The earlier ones were shingled.

Higher resolution closeup --



Finally, here is a shot from circa 1916 taken from just south of the newer Box's position up Station Road --



A blowup --



Using OS Maps and the above photos it is possible to get an approximate set of coordinates for the original location for this Box.

Latitude/Longitude:   51.489904, 0.121281
OS Grid Reference:   547368, 178906

Here is where Google Maps places these coordinates on street view --



URL:  http://maps.google.com/maps?q=51.489904,+0.121281&hl=en&ll=51.490392,0.121375&spn=0.000007,0.005161&sll=51.489868,0.12137&sspn=0.002355,0.005161&t=m&z=18&layer=c&cbll=51.489867,0.121372&panoid=ck9qOqlAS2IkuMOUjeFhyA&cbp=12,302.22,,0,12.58

What makes these boxes significant is that from my current research these kiosks really were the first Metropolitan Police Call Boxes. They were purpose designed and built as points of telephone contact with either the bobby on the beat and/or the constable on watch at a nearby Fixed Point. From 1897 until 1929 there were over sixty street telephone contact points implemented by the Met. Most were this type of purpose built box, with the remainder being installed in existing Fixed Point boxes. This was done in a rather haphazard way as local needs and demands arose.

The box here at Abbey Wood was of the type actually designed and constructed for the purpose. They had a telephone, a desk-like shelf at the back, and even a signaling apparatus (a lamp and electro-mechanically triggered flag arrangement visible through one of the windows) to let the constable know that the phone was ringing and the station wished to speak with him. There was even some initial intent (unknown if actually acted upon) to allow trusted members of the public use of the telephone to contact the local Police Station to summon help.

These Boxes were originally connected via a dedicated line to the nearest large Police Station - this one to Plumstead. However, some 51 of these were converted to become part of the new integrated Police Box system in 1930, with the addition of signage and an externally accessible phone cupboard (and per another photo of a different box, a top beacon light!). This Box was likely one of those that was upgraded, remaining as part of the growing Police Box system until it was replaced by a concrete model in 1934 at the new location just up Harrow Manor Way, a bit closer to Abbey Wood Station.

So, it's becoming quite clear that many Met Boxes had almost as long a heritage as some of their Glaswegian cousins. Very cool, indeed. It will, however, necessitate the revision of the "Type" numbers to reflect that these truly were "the original, you might say."

[domvar]

I think we still have a lot to learn about the earlier boxes.

I can't remember which box thread it was in but there is one that has an even earlier box with a slated roof which was then replaced with one of these with the pointy roof.

There is also the Covent Garden type box which may or may not have been a police box but Charles Dickens had one in his front garden.

[hb88banzai]

Crayford Bridge is the one you are thinking of (sited in 1902, switched out for the concrete Box (R34) in Nov 1934). I have a lot more photos and info for that Box which I'm going to be posting in the next day or so - stay tuned. I've also found photos of the earliest of these boxes (the experimental box at Cricklewood that went operational in 1897 and eventually became S42), and it too had shingles on the roof at first. More on that in the near future as well.

The Covent Garden Box (and the identical looking Dickens House Box, whether or not it is actually the same Box) were almost certainly Police Boxes of some kind, but they were most likely Fixed Point Boxes (and/or Guard Boxes). That is to say, watch boxes that were made to stand for shelter at some Fixed Points in the policing scheme in force between 1870 and 1929, whereby police duties for Constables were split between those on the Beat and those stationed at "Fixed Points" at specified times of the day and night throughout Greater London. Regardless, they were cast iron and seem to predate the boxes I'm talking about, which were specifically designed to provide telephone communications and signaling and so are the first link in the chain for the Metropolitan Police Call Box we all know and love as opposed to just any old Police Box. The heritage for normal Police Boxes goes all the way back to guard shacks in the military and the Watch of medieval England, or more recently as shelters and centers of operation during the Night Watch period in Britain in the 1700s to early 1800s.

Regardless, some of those Victorian Fixed Point Boxes were indeed retrofitted with telephones, but I don't yet know if any of the more ornate cast iron ones were so fitted. I have seen a notation that they were considered unsuitable for this purpose, so the retrofits may have been isolated to wooden ones, some of which appear to have resembled the Criclewood type box, but were generally a bit larger as they were designed more for shelter.

We definitely still have a lot to learn, but we have mountains more info on the subject than we once did and can now start to get a real picture of what happened, when and why.

[domvar]

Looks like wood to me but other than that I think your spot on.  I look forward to the info about the other box.

Cheers

Dom

[hb88banzai]

Well now I'm curious. I thought I remembered reading somewhere that it was cast iron, but it sure looks like wood joinery here. Awfully well preserved if it is and it's original. Has anyone seen it in person and wrapped a knuckle on it to see what it's made of?

Perhaps I was just remembering that the existing boxes (1896, when the discussion was taking place) were just considered too ornate and somehow conflated it with the Glasgow cast iron boxes. I'll have to go back and look again.

Thanks for the picture. Think I already had it, but haven't looked at it in awhile - forgot just how handsome it is. Wonder what the window area originally looked like?

[domvar]

It's been restorred since then see the 2 doctors picture here :-

http://tardisbuilders.com/index.php?topic=3268.0

[slidin_sidewayz]

Seeing these pictures from long ago as well as old photos from Australia's past it never ceases to amaze me just how fickle and stupid we humans are. Look at the old pics- you see the buildings have awnings and the people are wearing hats. What the hell happened? Why did we decide it was better to get skin cancer than stay under shade and wear hats outdoors? I for one am trying to undo the trend but to me, hoodies and beanies are not acceptable replacements. Oh well...

[hb88banzai]

Another photo of the later Met Box in Abbey Wood. Not sure of the date, but probably from the late 1950s to early 1960s based on the cars and the paint scheme --



Blowup of the Box --

[Dalekoracle]

Thats superb! And its great to see a different view of this box (especially a view where its not surrounded by water!)
Thanks for posting.

Mark

[scruffy57]

Here is a new view of this Box

Scruff

[scruffy57]

Here is another I,m not sure if it's an unknown someone will know

Scruff

[Dalekoracle]

Its R12, the Abbey Wood Station Box.

ID:R12
Install Type:Box
Siren:   
Commission Date:05-Nov-34
Removal Date:Jun 70
Location:Harrow Manor Way, west side 82 yards north of Abbey Wood Road
District:Abbey Wood
Subdivision:Woolwich

http://tardisbuilders.com/index.php?topic=3740

You posted a very similar photo of it in the main Abbey Wood thread back on 25 March '17 - its currently the last post in the Abbey Wood thread linked to above.

Mark

[hb88banzai]

Topics merged.

I've got an original copy of this postcard somewhere - I'll scan and post a higher res copy, not that there's a lot more to see from this vantage point.