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Window Panes

Started by lorisarvendu, Apr 27, 2011, 10:08 am

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lorisarvendu

Apr 27, 2011, 10:08 am Last Edit: Aug 31, 2012, 09:14 pm by Scarfwearer
Positioning of frosted windows - I notice that a couple of Peted's photos at the beginning of this thread, are of different sides, as the frosted panes move around.  Since the only one we're certain about is the front, I suppose it's guesswork as to what the other three look like.

Front:
Front.jpg

Possibly Left Side:
Side1.jpg

DocEight

We actually have three of the four sides, due to the auction for the miniature used in the vortex shots.
Seeking a classic Dalek dome.

the doctor who2

Sep 17, 2014, 07:26 pm #2 Last Edit: Sep 17, 2014, 07:35 pm by the doctor who2
Nobody seems to have added anything to this thread for quite a while.
I'm in the process of making a Rendered 3D Model of this box and want to get it as accurately as possible, This includes the Windows hammered glass positions.
I've been scouring the web for images of this Police Box and to say it was only back in 1996, there's hardly any reference pictures for it. It's very annoying.
Anyway I've come up with these hypothesis and want to get you guys opinions and so show that I'm not just seeing things :)

Right, the easiest set of Windows are the front;

Front Window.jpg

No point talking about this this is just so obvious, the rest aren't so easy.
The next set which are quite straight forward is the Left hand Windows;

Left Window.jpg

Again straightforward, the top set of images on the right from the EBay model show what orientation the model was when it was photographed.
The Next set which i find quite interesting, the Right;

Right Window Prop.jpg

The first 3 windows are easy but the last one is in question. On the main Prop and the wider Prop used in the Motorbike scene, the window as you can see from the images on the right, which i adjusted in photoshop show the hammered glass shining in the sun and shows the glass was put in the top right corner.

Or is it...

Right Window Model.jpg

The model that was made contradicts this by placing it in the bottom right hand corner instead. I'm more inclined to believe the main prop and the not the model as this could have been a very simple mistake on the prop makers part.

And finally the back.
This is the hardest to find reference for by a country mile. I got a headache trying to manipulate images to see the way the glass is placed and I've come up with this;

Back Window.jpg

This is where i probably start seeing what i just want to see,
but if we look at the images on the top right i saw, like the ones above, that theres a really strong reflection of the sun on the hammered glass.
from the way the pattern starts on the right,

Back Window2.jpg

I first looked at the pattern of the windows and it didn't match anything noted above so must be the back of the TARDIS.
The only picture i have found that shows it in any way.
I then looked at the EBay model again and as it happens shows the same window pattern as this one is.

The only issue is the left hand window, this is very hard to decipher the EBay model i can't tell, tried adjusting the image but is too a low quality and just looks like a bunch of pixels.
The only way is really the image on the right, but the glass doesn't shine like the others do, but the only hope we have is if you look at the you can see the dark grey of the windows and a slightly lighter grey which is was i am assuming is the hammered glass, So currently my best guess would be that the windows have this pattern on the back.
But let me know what you lot think, if you do happen to have any other images that i wouldn't have found let me know. It would be nice to know what the windows positions are like for this box.

Oh one last thing i spotted, not sure if any else has spotted this little continuity error.
Right the TARDIS lands and doesn't move position till almost the end of the film,
we all know one of the scenes shows the camera track from the front to this position on the left hand side;
This shot here

dvd075-.jpg

Then we get to the Motorbike scene, well we all know the box is replaced with a wider version of the prop to compensate for the width of their Police motorcycles. Well put simply they replaced the props and put the wider prop in position,
the WRONG WAY ROUND!

d08-7y-c0784.jpg

I've adjusted the image again to try and make it more obvious but look at the glass positions now;

d08-7y-c0785.jpg

The top right and top left of the right window are Hammered glass and the Left Door the bottom Right are hammered, which is the right hand side of the box, It should have been the left hand side not the right! So either the glass was put in the right order but wrong sides or they put the box on set the wrong way round.
Don't think we'll ever know :)
"There's no point being GROWN UP if you can't be CHILDISH sometimes!"

The Fourth Doctor - Robot, S12 E01

davidnagel

Nice reference!

I don't suppose using the model from the title sequence (considering its based off the full size prop) is any use? Since it does spin all the way round...
Kind Regards,

David

www.spiffinglyniceguy.co.uk

galacticprobe

Sep 18, 2014, 06:47 am #4 Last Edit: Sep 18, 2014, 07:07 am by galacticprobe
Well, starting with what we know (thanks to your references):

Front Door windows - no-brainer; larger than life: we know the pattern.

Left Side windows - again, no-brainer; forget the motorcycle scene and go with what you can plainly see on the "main" prop.

Right Side windows - a little tougher; we've got the "front" part of that side (with McGann leaning on the corner), so we know the pattern of at least that front window. The back right side window, from the photo of the prop in that "I.M.Foreman"-looking junkyard confirms the lower hammered pane of that window, and as you say, you can see the sun glinting off of that top right pane. I would suggest going with that - knowing it is from one of the "main" props. Forget the model for this side, for as we know all too well (especially when looking back at the Hartnell-Tom Baker years), the model sometimes doesn't even come close to the main prop. So go with the junkyard prop; it's full-sized, and probably a more reliable source.

Rear Side windows - now we're getting into the sticky bit. Looking at the back of the prop, the window on the "right" as you look at it does have that same sunlight glint off of the hammered glass that you mentioned with the prop's Right Side Proper. So that window pattern I would say is fairly to pretty well reliable. Again looking at the prop's back, your "left" window also has that sunlight glint of hammered glass on the lower left pane. I've tried playing about with the image you posted, and I think after a bit of sharpening, and lightening, it does look like that window has a hammered pane in the upper center. (The image of the inside of the model makes it look like there are more than just two hammered panes in that window, so again I'd suggest letting that one go.)

Can you post the original image of the prop's rear? Maybe if I tweak that one, rather than the pixelated one above, I might be able to bring out a bit more detail, and we might see where that last elusive hammered pane is.

But this is just my 2p worth: Front=done, seen them on screen; Left side=done, seen them on screen (main prop - ignore the larger motorcycle prop); Right side="mostly" done, we can see the forward window and one hammered pane of the after window with McGann in the image, and we have a decent image of what might be that other hammered pane on the prop in the junkyard (and I'd call it good - just me); Rear="3/4ths" done, we can see three hammered panes on the prop in the junkyard, and possibly that last hammered pane at top center of the "left" window, and if I can clean the original image up to get more details, I'll give it my best shot (if you can post it, that is).

Dino.
"What's wrong with being childish?! I like being childish." -3rd Doctor, "Terror of the Autons"

the doctor who2

Quote from: davidnagel on Sep 18, 2014, 01:18 am
Nice reference!

I don't suppose using the model from the title sequence (considering its based off the full size prop) is any use? Since it does spin all the way round...


I did have a go various times to use the opening title as a reference but due to the footage being of poor quality and not HD, you can't tell which glass is which its all white, so the model footage is inconclusive.

Quote from: galacticprobe on Sep 18, 2014, 06:47 am
Well, starting with what we know (thanks to your references):

Front Door windows - no-brainer; larger than life: we know the pattern.

Left Side windows - again, no-brainer; forget the motorcycle scene and go with what you can plainly see on the "main" prop.

Right Side windows - a little tougher; we've got the "front" part of that side (with McGann leaning on the corner), so we know the pattern of at least that front window. The back right side window, from the photo of the prop in that "I.M.Foreman"-looking junkyard confirms the lower hammered pane of that window, and as you say, you can see the sun glinting off of that top right pane. I would suggest going with that - knowing it is from one of the "main" props. Forget the model for this side, for as we know all too well (especially when looking back at the Hartnell-Tom Baker years), the model sometimes doesn't even come close to the main prop. So go with the junkyard prop; it's full-sized, and probably a more reliable source.

Rear Side windows - now we're getting into the sticky bit. Looking at the back of the prop, the window on the "right" as you look at it does have that same sunlight glint off of the hammered glass that you mentioned with the prop's Right Side Proper. So that window pattern I would say is fairly to pretty well reliable. Again looking at the prop's back, your "left" window also has that sunlight glint of hammered glass on the lower left pane. I've tried playing about with the image you posted, and I think after a bit of sharpening, and lightening, it does look like that window has a hammered pane in the upper center. (The image of the inside of the model makes it look like there are more than just two hammered panes in that window, so again I'd suggest letting that one go.)

Can you post the original image of the prop's rear? Maybe if I tweak that one, rather than the pixelated one above, I might be able to bring out a bit more detail, and we might see where that last elusive hammered pane is.

But this is just my 2p worth: Front=done, seen them on screen; Left side=done, seen them on screen (main prop - ignore the larger motorcycle prop); Right side="mostly" done, we can see the forward window and one hammered pane of the after window with McGann in the image, and we have a decent image of what might be that other hammered pane on the prop in the junkyard (and I'd call it good - just me); Rear="3/4ths" done, we can see three hammered panes on the prop in the junkyard, and possibly that last hammered pane at top center of the "left" window, and if I can clean the original image up to get more details, I'll give it my best shot (if you can post it, that is).

Dino.


Thats how i'd figure it. Looks pretty stop on but just the back which is a bit of a pain.
I'd agree to not trust the model, for all we know that might not be the actual one but a fan built, and so is unreliable.
Looks like we've really got this topic almost nailed, almost :)
Heres the original image, see what magic you can perform on it :)

d08-7y-226.jpg

It's not the best picture in the world, be interested in see if you can make it easier to tell.
"There's no point being GROWN UP if you can't be CHILDISH sometimes!"

The Fourth Doctor - Robot, S12 E01

galacticprobe

Sep 20, 2014, 06:03 am #6 Last Edit: Sep 20, 2014, 06:07 am by galacticprobe
Well, it figures that the one set of windows we're interested in just happens to be the worst ones: the blurriest area in that photo! Still, I tried, and this is the best I was able to do with it:
BackWindows.jpg
(Cropped to concentrate on the box we're trying to figure out.) This is all I could do with the image. My son has a proper Photoshop on his Mac and I'll ask him if there is anything more he can do with it. But even with what I was able to do with it, where I see the most "shading" that looks like the hammered glass panes are here:
BackWindows2.jpg
Yellow rectangles are the plain frosted panes; the red ones (with arrows to really highlight things) are the hammered panes.

If my son is able to clean this up any better and I find out anything else, one way or the other, I'll let you know.

Hopefully this helped a little.

Dino.
"What's wrong with being childish?! I like being childish." -3rd Doctor, "Terror of the Autons"