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"Barnet" Type comparison to "Blackwall North" box

Started by lorisarvendu, Mar 06, 2012, 10:15 am

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lorisarvendu

Mar 06, 2012, 10:15 am Last Edit: Mar 06, 2012, 10:18 am by lorisarvendu
Whilst re-scanning in my photos of the old Mk1 that used to sit outside the Hendon Police College in London (not the MkIII inside), I've completely changed my opinion of specific Met Box "types".

I have comparable photos of this box and the "Blackwell North" (does that sound better than "Mile End"?  :D) box, so I've photoshopped them (well PaintShopPro'd) together.  

HendonBlackNorth.jpg

OK, I took the Hendon box photo not quite full-on, and it's on a lower plinth to the Blackwall one, but both photos were taken within a couple of years of eachother, making me the same height, so I don't think you can therefore have a better comparison.  

Tilting the Hendon photo 1 degree to the right to straighten it, and adjusting the picture resolutions so panel features line up, the roof stacks are definitely higher, and the sign boxes covering more of the corner posts on the Hendon.

This clinches it for me.  The Hendon box was of the "Barnet" type, whereas "Blackwell North" wasn't.  Time to do a new version of my Met Box Plans - the "Barnet Box"!

This also explains why I was always vaguely unsatisfied with my visit to Mile End, as aside from the fact that the box was red, it just didn't look as "Tardisy" as the Hendon one did.  Now I know why. I'm a Big Stack Man!

Mark

Quoteit just didn't look as "Tardisy" as the Hendon one


This line made me laugh quite a lot. Reason is I always thought the same thing after visiting the Tramway Museum but the part that makes me laugh is the more TARDISy (Barnet etc) version looks the least like any TARDIS while the other is more like it! ;D

I thought it was just me being my normal odd self but at least there are two of us now!

It's also odd how the stacks aren't just higher but not as evenly spaced where as the other version are the same distance in on each level. Still havn't figure out why that would have been done.

When I planned for my current model build I got some dims based on a number of photo's I merged with my Chich Sketch-up model. I'll email it you if you want? Maybe we can come up with the diffinative dimensions (unless mark D finds the real plans when he visits the Police Archive).

domvar

One thing i did notice on the gpo plans that was different to the trench ones is the join between the top of the roof and the stacks is missing from the gpo ones, maybe the mk 1 cast the roof in 1 but the mk 2 had a separate top section or vice versa.

lorisarvendu

Quote from: Mark on Mar 06, 2012, 03:00 pm
When I planned for my current model build I got some dims based on a number of photo's I merged with my Chich Sketch-up model. I'll email it you if you want? Maybe we can come up with the diffinative dimensions (unless mark D finds the real plans when he visits the Police Archive).


I guess that's why I like the Cushing Tardis so much.  I've done a quick and dirty modification of a Met box plan that I got off this board, and it sort of looks right if I overlay it onto a pic of Barnet, but yes I wouldn't mind seeing  your plans (see my profile for email addy).  Unfortunately since I've got no chance of ever making a full size box, I don't work on actual dimensions.

lorisarvendu

I copied the plans from this old thread:  http://tardisbuilders.com/index.php?topic=734.0

With comparison between Barnet and Crich/Blackwall pics I made some rough modifications just to see what it looked like.  The changes I made were:

1. Sign box width increased, covering over 75% of the corner post.
2. First stack slightly shorter
3. Second stack taller
4. Third stack taller (though less tall than second stack)
5. Shallower pitch of roof, so lamp slightly lower

The only one I'm not 100% happy with is (5). Since most photos are taken from a 6ft height, and the Barnet box is probably slightly taller than a Crich-type, a certain amount of shortening due to perspective will take place.  The question is, has this made the pitch of the roof look shallower than it actually is?

Barnet Small.gif

Mark

Couldn't see your email, it appears to be hidden. For now I've done some screen captures of the Sketchup modell.
Capture 3.JPGCapture4.JPGCapture5.JPG

This is the same model in each picture but the with view adjusted to match the various pictures. The good thing is you can match as many pictures as you want and lick between each one as you adjust your model or build. When using the photo match tool you have to align various bars to match known horizontal and vertical lines on the picture you are matching your build to, two each for each plane x,y and z.

Straight forward in theory but a pain in the ass to get right as it also gives you a bar that lets you alter the the vanishing point. As such, some of the photo's aren't 100% matched but as close as damn it.

This gives the following measurements which apart from the pitched part of the roof, seem to follow a logical set of measurements.
Capture 2.JPG
The sketchup is in 1-1 scale and I built up the roof to match the photo's so they are (well, for me at least) pretty close to what I can only imagine are the real measurements.

I remember you saying on one of your build threads that you don't usually bother with dimensions etc but maybe this help giving you an idea of proportions.

domvar

I could be wrong but Crich looks different again it's middle step looks slightly bigger than the Mile End (I'm going to struggle to call it anything else)

Mark

I've had a quick bash and it looks like they could be the same size Dom.

Mile end Chrich.jpg


domvar

Yep I think the colour changewas causing an illusion :D

lorisarvendu

Quote from: Mark on Mar 07, 2012, 05:22 pm
Couldn't see your email, it appears to be hidden. For now I've done some screen captures of the Sketchup modell.



Why don't you put a download link to your sketchup model here - ?

http://tardisbuilders.com/index.php?topic=3363.0

Mark

Keep meaning to but never get round to it  :-\

I'll have a look into it in short while.

lorisarvendu

Whilst transcribing Dalekoracle's Police Box Locations file (I'm getting there, you'll see it soon!!), I've located the entries for the two "Blackwall" boxes:

The North box (aka "Mile End" box)  was in H Division's patch and commenced operation 3rd January 1938.
This is the correct box, as the location information is:

East India Dock Road, south side 50 yards north of Blackwall Tunnel entrance - Poplar

Whilst the South box was in R Division and commenced operation on the 5th November 1934.  Again the location is correct:

Tunnel Avenue, west side 150 yards south of Blackwall Tunnel entrance - Greenwich

Both boxes were erected 4 years apart, by different Divisions, and separated geographically as well as in time.  So I'm willing to bet they were built by different contractors and therefore to different designs.

They are both listed as  "Transfered to G.L.C. Dec 70", and the Fire Brigade would have been run by the G.L.C. back in the 70s. 

Their "Removal" dates are down as 1979 in both cases, but since we know they weren't actually demolished until at least the 80s "Removal" to the Met may mean "Removal from Operational Service".

Unfortunately I haven't got to Wimbledon and Barnet in my transcribing yet, but it would be interesting to see if the "Crich" box was also erected the same year as the "Mile End" one that it resembles, and the "Barnet" box in the same year as the "Blackwall South" one.

domvar

What is the latest date for a box being put into service so far ?

Dalekoracle

I think that the list, once its transcribed, will probably end up in its own dedicated thread where it can be pulled apart and discussed.

Regarding the Blackwall tunnel boxes, given the corrosive effects of liquid concrete, I'd not be surprised if it was the same contractor, but using different moulds to cast up the box sections, especially given the fact that theres four years between the two boxes.

mark D

lorisarvendu

Quote from: domvar on Mar 14, 2012, 07:20 pm
What is the latest date for a box being put into service so far ?


Jan 38.  Earliest is about Jan 34.  So the Met kind of went Concrete Box Mad over those 4 years.

Re earlier comment, the Crich box came from Ealing Broadway, not Wimbledon, didn't it?