Dec 05, 2020, 02:26 pm

News:

New, New TardisBuilders!


2010 Door Trim Variation?

Started by ahildesigns, Jul 10, 2011, 11:45 pm

Previous topic - Next topic

ahildesigns

Jul 10, 2011, 11:45 pm Last Edit: Mar 12, 2018, 09:46 pm by Scarfwearer
Hey all. Was just doing some major reference work for a drawing of the Smith Box, when an oddity crept up and sent me reeling through every picture of the box that I have.
I was just about to draw in the Door trim when I noticed the two pictures I was using were completely different in that regard... and then noticed it in a few other places, too. So I thought I'd bring it to the experts and let you discern in the hopes that future builders might have an answer when they bump into the discrepancy themselves. Here's a few pics to illustrate just what I'm rambling on about (please pardon my lack of proper terminology).

First up is what I consider to be "standard" for the box, the very cool double trim:

DoubleTrim1.png
- From a hi-res Birthday Card


DoubleTrimSC.png
- a SC from S6 Ep4

-------------

Now the odd, rounded single Trim:

SingleTrim1.png
- From same Birthday Card as above


SingleTrim2.png
- From the Doctor Who Experience

So strange isn't it? Any thoughts on this?

kiwidoc

Intersting-  I've never been able to make out the trim details from pictures but recently went to 'The Experience and saw the S5 prop and noted it's curved trim.

Did you saw that the same birthday card shows two types of trim?  How's that - two pictures?

Rassilons Rod

So it bares some heritage from the Newberry prop? i.e. no steps but a frame... interesting, not noticed that myself either :)
In the cities in the streets there's a tension you can feel,
The breaking strain is fast approaching, guns and riots.
Politicians gamble and lie to save their skins,
And the press get fed the scapegoats,
Public Enema Number One.

superrichi1a

KikiDoc's right, I too noted that the filming prop at the Experience had the rounded trim, but, that seems to be a third sort still. Take a look:

TARDIS Trim.jpg

It's not very easy to see, but that IS rounded trim, but of a different sort to the one pictured above (the first trim shot, not the other from the Experience).While that shot sseems to round off the corner post into the door, the second round shot seems to show a bigger rounded trim, that could still look like the double trim in some photos.
What I'm thinking is... there are 4 main boxes, right? The 3 filming props and the promotional box at the TVC. Perhaps the promotional box has one
kind of trim, the first 2 filming props have another, and the recently build 3rd filming prop has the last.

Yeah... I'm confused by what I wrote, too...
Isn't it how ironic that we have to think of solutions out of the box, in order to build our boxes a lot of the time?

ahildesigns

Quote from: kiwidoc on Jul 11, 2011, 12:29 am
Intersting-  I've never been able to make out the trim details from pictures but recently went to 'The Experience and saw the S5 prop and noted it's curved trim.

Did you saw that the same birthday card shows two types of trim?  How's that - two pictures?


Actually, yes. Both the Birthday Card shots are from the same card. At least on the card, there's no denying the trim is different on each side.

Here's the full res version of it:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1140263/Forum%20Holds/2091433.jpg

I have a sneaking suspicion this is also evidenced on the side of the box in shots from the Smith/Gillan photocall at Lowery Threatre... but I've yet to find a large enough photo to support it. Am still scouring the internet looking for more evidence of these varying trims.


philipw

I think these are the same kind of trim, a rectangular profile with a cover machined into the inside edge, just one is cut more deeply than the other.

galacticprobe

Jul 12, 2011, 04:35 am #6 Last Edit: Jul 12, 2011, 04:37 am by galacticprobe
I know there are "rays of lights" FX on that birthday card to make it look cool, but looking really closely at the box on that card, especially going down the center divider where the doors meet (not to mention the whole box in general), it looks to me like someone took two different boxes - left half of one and right half of another - to splice them into one image.

The center divider looks way too narrow and off to the right, and that strip running across the top of the doors is just a frame on the left, but on the right has two small "half steps" which blend into the squarish trim down the side. The left side trim is all rounded. And a close look at the roof, very edge of the top step where the pitch begins, you can see the edge doesn't even line up correctly.

So I think what we're looking at on that card is actually two different TARDIS prop photos that, for some reason, were cut down the middle and put together with, for lack of better words, their wrong halves. So what we really need are such high-res photos of the actual TARDIS props to see how they differ from each other because the image on the card doesn't help the discussion of which prop had which trim, and which series it was used in.

Dino.
"What's wrong with being childish?! I like being childish." -3rd Doctor, "Terror of the Autons"

marinedalek

It would be extremely difficult (and pretty pointless) to splice two different TARDIS prop pictures as you've suggested. The lighting on the lamp alone would be very hard to match, but aside from that I think the clincher is the grain along the front of the roof stack - it continues between the two pictures indicating that they are indeed the same prop. Actually all of the photos in this topic are clearly from the same prop simply because the wood grain matches exactly throughout. Of course for most that just means that only the doors are the same but it's a fairly reasonable assumption that they were kept together with the prop...

As for the trim, it is extremely hard to judge depth and curvature in a head-on photo such as the one on the card, because the light changes from an angled surface can be interpreted as shadow due to an inset, as well as many other optical illusions. I think to answer this we need high-quality screengrabs of the same section of the same box from multiple angles... anyone feel like trawling through the episodes?

galacticprobe

Jul 12, 2011, 04:09 pm #8 Last Edit: Jul 12, 2011, 04:14 pm by galacticprobe
Has anyone else gone to that link ahildesigns posted and looked at the full-size image? Even looking at the wood grain, the way the roof stack edge is misaligned, the trim around the doors changes at the half way point, and the fact that the doors' center divider looks like only half of it is there (and this divider is a flat piece across its front so it can't create a shadow on itself).

Also notice that at the middle of the image there is a very distinct shadow that runs down the entire length of the image, and with the exception of the top sign box lettering (and the lamp) that shadow is so dark that it's a black/grey blur line so you can't really see any detail where the two halves meet.

So even after staring at this card image, up and down, again and again, I'm still seeing one half of one TARDIS prop spliced with the other half of another TARDIS prop to create that image. How else can one side's trim be so completely different from the other side's? I know there are variances in TARDIS props, but I doubt strongly the props department would build a prop with its trim as far off as the one in this image.

Dino.
"What's wrong with being childish?! I like being childish." -3rd Doctor, "Terror of the Autons"

marinedalek

The shadow mark is very easily explained - the card in question folds outward to reveal a photo of the console room inside; the shadow is where the two front "doors" of the card meet. Actually I'm now thinking that the top and right trim is the two-step notch while the left is solid with a curve... Take a look at this screencap from VotD which most certainly hasn't been stitched together!

curvedandnotched.jpg

ahildesigns

Quote from: galacticprobe on Jul 12, 2011, 04:09 pm
Has anyone else gone to that link ahildesigns posted and looked at the full-size image? Even looking at the wood grain, the way the roof stack edge is misaligned, the trim around the doors changes at the half way point, and the fact that the doors' center divider looks like only half of it is there (and this divider is a flat piece across its front so it can't create a shadow on itself).

Also notice that at the middle of the image there is a very distinct shadow that runs down the entire length of the image, and with the exception of the top sign box lettering (and the lamp) that shadow is so dark that it's a black/grey blur line so you can't really see any detail where the two halves meet.

So even after staring at this card image, up and down, again and again, I'm still seeing one half of one TARDIS prop spliced with the other half of another TARDIS prop to create that image. How else can one side's trim be so completely different from the other side's? I know there are variances in TARDIS props, but I doubt strongly the props department would build a prop with its trim as far off as the one in this image.

Dino.


I'm very inclined to agree with you. Unfortunately this is going to continue to be a matter of speculation anytime there's a prop that's been run through photoshop to meet a publishing project. To digress just a little more on the card: while extremely hard to see the center trim piece is fully intact.... but because they were looking to create the effect of the card opening, the drop-shadow on the split is covering the left side of the trim. I re-lit it in software and most of it is there. Anyway, it would be very easy to blend two TARDIS together into one if taken at the exact same angle with even similar lighting.... so I'm not sold on the 'woodgrain' argument above.

But really the card is a moot point until we can verify if this is a prop-specific feature. I see it now only a signifier. The best evidence is in that prop at the Experience---or if we can track down any more real life photos to support it. I've looked again at the photo set I was speaking on earlier . I'm going to include at least one in with a another couple (the others were too poorly angled), As well as one more from my web-collection and one from a deviantART member who took the photo themselves.


http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/095/e/6/the_real_tardis_by_master258.jpg
- Taken by a gentleman in the UK at a Toy R Us event

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1140263/Forum%20Holds/5329954338_6b700c0b41_o.jpg
- From my collection - don't remember original source

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1140263/Forum%20Holds/d11-0465.jpg
- Lowery Theatre Promo shot


And awesome SC find, marinedalek!

marinedalek

Jul 12, 2011, 06:47 pm #11 Last Edit: Jul 12, 2011, 07:38 pm by marinedalek
Now this is interesting... further investigation of the prop in VotD shows that actually both have the large curve with no inset. The only thing I can think of is that the grain in the wood has affected the lighting on the right piece such that from the front it appears dark where the curve begins... take a look at these two caps:

LeftTrim.jpgRightTrim.jpg

EDIT: And having read the paint thread I now know why: the prop seems to have been painted in metallic paint which emphasises the woodgrain and will certainly cause odd shading artefacts such as the "phantom step" on the right hand moulding.

slidin_sidewayz

Geez, bit hard to see the TARDIS at all in those shots, what with the gorgeous red-head in the way.  ;D

retrocentral

Can anyone clarify if any further if the matt smith or capaldi tardis props did indeed have the curved trim around the panels or were they all stepped?