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K9 Picture History

Started by exleo, Jun 22, 2010, 09:28 pm

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davidnagel

Feb 12, 2016, 09:34 am #30 Last Edit: Feb 12, 2016, 09:34 am by davidnagel
Unless its the differences between Hero prop and Stunt props? Or some gradual dilapidation of the original eye arrangement and some FX team (or even Irvine) is busy fixing it up on and off?

See this Shada picture, the eye arrangement is even more peculiar.

shada.jpg

Definitely not the 5 and neither the 3 and half.
Kind Regards,

David

www.spiffinglyniceguy.co.uk

fivefingeredstyre

I think K9's was the subject of continual repair over the years. I think it's in Mike Tukers VFX book they talk about how they had to almost completely rebuild him for Search Out Science.

Also the light weight stunt prop wound up in private hands after Warriors Gate. I met the guy once, and had a close look at it. He got in contact with Mat Irvine and measured the head on the hero prop and rebuilt the stunt one inside and out to look like the hero circa season 18.

According to the guy, The refurbed stunt prop is the one the Cardiff team measured when they built the dilapidated K9 for School Reunion, with the original Hero prop appearing in the closing scenes, which is why the two props look different. The refurbed stunt actually looks in better shape than the hero, if you ask me...

Somewhere I've got a load of pictures I took of the various different models, I must have a root round and dig them out....

fivefingeredstyre

Here we go!

This is the School Reunion prop circa 2010, when it was on display at the Lands End exhibition

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(Notice that someone's put a Trumpet mouthpiece in place of his nosegun!)

Heres the "Hero" prop as was last year at Small Space

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fivefingeredstyre

Feb 16, 2016, 07:57 am #33 Last Edit: Feb 16, 2016, 07:58 am by fivefingeredstyre
And here are the two props side by side at the 50th Convention a couple of years back

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fivefingeredstyre

Feb 16, 2016, 08:00 am #34 Last Edit: Feb 16, 2016, 08:01 am by fivefingeredstyre
And this ones an oddity

Its the prop on display at the Doctor Who experience (Its been around a few years as well, as it was also on display at the Lands End exhibition 6 years ago).

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Its certainly not the original, however it is definitely based on it *There's no side seems or rivets on the head).

timewomble

Having seen this one in person, and again now in your photos, the head looks thinner than I remember it being on TV. Presumably this is because the "hero" prop's head was wider to accommodate the additional innards (e.g. Ticker tape printer etc)?

davidnagel

Unless its this photo angle/lens game and the heads are looking different at different angles.

Review Steve's circa 2010 School Reunion prop head against the same prop sitting next to the original K9: both look different but is supposedly the same prop. I guess same goes for the Hero prop.

I'm so confused.
Kind Regards,

David

www.spiffinglyniceguy.co.uk

davidnagel

Feb 16, 2016, 05:55 pm #37 Last Edit: Feb 16, 2016, 05:56 pm by davidnagel
I think this is one of the stunt props, not only because of how Tom is handling it but also the way the head is constructed.

That line across the head above the eye arrangement, is this the head that was extended?

4e1e640c50b8d0bc887fb6a25f556919.jpg
Kind Regards,

David

www.spiffinglyniceguy.co.uk

fivefingeredstyre

Quote from: timewomble on Feb 16, 2016, 04:00 pm
Having seen this one in person, and again now in your photos, the head looks thinner than I remember it being on TV. Presumably this is because the "hero" prop's head was wider to accommodate the additional innards (e.g. Ticker tape printer etc)?

I've also got some face on shots of the exhibition prop ill post later, for comparisons sake...

David

I'm pretty sure that's the stunt prop in the picture you posted. I don't think the head was,modified to look like the original until it went into private hands

No expert though, just passing on what I heard from the individual concerned

Rassilons Rod

I don't know.... I'm no expert on K9.... but presumably the heads were exchangeable much like dalek parts were?
In the cities in the streets there's a tension you can feel,
The breaking strain is fast approaching, guns and riots.
Politicians gamble and lie to save their skins,
And the press get fed the scapegoats,
Public Enema Number One.

fivefingeredstyre

I don't think they are, easily that is. The Hero prop head is connected to the mechanism that makes it nod, and also the antenna for the RC control is actually the eye probe.

A few more pictures of the exhibition prop...

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dfthyerhyeryu_zpsxmuazd3z.jpg

I'm 100% certain the exhibition head is slightly narrower that the original, probably by just shy of half an inch or so...

davidnagel

Thanks for the extra pictures Steve. I still can't be sure of whether the heads vary at all lol, I'm convinced that every photo is making the head seem different!

As regard to the stunt head changes, I seem to recall reading somewhere (The Doctor's Effects book???) that the original original head was extended to accommodate the new inside mechanisms? Did they migrate this to a stunt body when a new one was made? And hence that weird one in the Tom Baker picture above.

*shrugs* I'm no K9 expert either, I'm just surprised that some more obvious changes weren't immediate evident.
Kind Regards,

David

www.spiffinglyniceguy.co.uk

exleo

The pictures of the Lands end display in the posts above was another of the dummy exhibition casts and not the actual 'School Reunion' prop, this can be verified by the fact you can see the screws on the side of the head in the exhibition dog, where as the actual prop used in the show has no visible screws in the side of the head......

The private owner does not own the actual dummy stunt prop, but most likely one of the original cast copies made for exhibition back in the 70s/80.s (Most likely the MOMI exhibit as seen in the naration sections of the 'Shada' Release...) Original Exhibit models were in Blackpool, Longleat (the one that caught fire and burnt the place down), MOMI, and another that was used in the travelling exhibition of the USA in the big WHO Truck in the 80's. The Blackpool and Longleat Exhibits were animatronic, where as the the other two were just empty static casts, it is most likely one of these that is in the hands of the private owner... the second one went into auction at Bonhams at the same time as the original David Tennant Police Box

As we all know the Original Hero Prop has always been looked after by Matt Irvine, though it is still 'officially' owned by the BBC.. The original dummy/stunt prop was retained for many years by the BBC in storage and dragged out for various exhibits and eventually fell into the hands of Mike Tucker for storage. We all recognise this prop for the original shaped head that was changed at the last minute on the hero prop due to it not being big enough to hold the gun workings and the original  mouth tape dispenser. It was this original stunt version that was pulled out and rebuilt for the 'School Reunion' prop, with work overseen by Mike tucker.
At the time of rebuilding a cast was taken from the hero prop to match up a new head shape. Only one side was used to create the mould and this was mirrored to make the whole head as one single piece, this meant that the 'Reunion' prop was the first ever version to have a equal balanced head shape as on the original hero prop the head is slightly flatter on one side than the other. As a newer balanced mould the 'Reunion' head had no need for the screws/rivets either side of the head so it has a lovely smooth surface.

During the building of the 'Reunion' prop, casts were taken fro the body of the stunt prop as it was in better condition than the hero prop and these casts have now been used to produce all of the exhibition dogs that have been all around the country ( Lands End, Manchester, Scotland, London, Cardiff, All having a K-9 on exhibit all at the same time at one point)

So while there have been many copies produced for exhibition over the years the two 'Originals' are still the only ones to have ever appeared within the series onscreen, The Hero Prop still Maintained and stored with Matt Irvine, The Original Dummy / rebuilt School Reunion prop, now Kept in Safe Keeping in Cardiff in Storage

There are of course many privately owned versions out there as were produced by 'This Planet Earth' when they had the license to produce them. These can all be identified by the fact they have the uneven head shape of the hero prop, due to being pulled from the original cast which had fallen into their hands. also the Body cast which was a mould created by them is actually slightly longer than the original Dogs, their measurments were incorrect when producing the body casts.. And finally the neck Gators were a half inch narrower in diametre than the original props....

fivefingeredstyre

Quote from: exleo on Feb 16, 2016, 08:34 pm
The pictures of the Lands end display in the posts above was another of the dummy exhibition casts and not the actual 'School Reunion' prop, this can be verified by the fact you can see the screws on the side of the head in the exhibition dog, where as the actual prop used in the show has no visible screws in the side of the head......
Like I said, I'm no expert :D... I always thought the backside on the reunion exhibit looked a little strange as well...

QuoteThe private owner does not own the actual dummy stunt prop, but most likely one of the original cast copies made for exhibition back in the 70s/80.s (Most likely the MOMI exhibit as seen in the naration sections of the 'Shada' Release...) Original Exhibit models were in Blackpool, Longleat (the one that caught fire and burnt the place down), MOMI, and another that was used in the travelling exhibition of the USA in the big WHO Truck in the 80's. The Blackpool and Longleat Exhibits were animatronic, where as the the other two were just empty static casts, it is most likely one of these that is in the hands of the private owner...
Did they have the misshapen heads as well? the guy I met was convinced his was one of the stunts, as he removed the original snub nosed version and he measured up Matt's Mutt's head and recast a fresh one (even down to the wonky sides... :D)

Its slightly scary how many people think they own genuine articles, isn't it?

Quotethe second one went into auction at Bonhams at the same time as the original David Tennant Police Box
I met this guy around 2011. Given the amount of refurbishment that went on with his prop i'm guessing he would have had to have had his in his possession before that the bonhams auction.

QuoteThere are of course many privately owned versions out there as were produced by 'This Planet Earth' when they had the license to produce them. These can all be identified by the fact they have the uneven head shape of the hero prop, due to being pulled from the original cast which had fallen into their hands. also the Body cast which was a mould created by them is actually slightly longer than the original Dogs, their measurments were incorrect when producing the body casts.. And finally the neck Gators were a half inch narrower in diametre than the original props....
The original style neck gator is really hard to track down, isn't it? I've found MG Midget heater ducting to be a close substitute, but still not quite the right size...

galacticprobe

Feb 16, 2016, 10:45 pm #44 Last Edit: Feb 16, 2016, 10:54 pm by galacticprobe
One thing I noticed looking at the "Hero" prop on display at 'Small Space' was that it had screws bolting the "K-9" logo to the side panel. Those screws never appeared on any of the on-screen K-9 props; that logo was always clean and smooth with not a screw in sight. So I'm curious about that one now as to whether or not it was ever used as a Hero prop, and if not, what it was used for (and when it was made).

I do remember hearing about that fire destroying many original exhibits back in the '80s, and that it had started with the K-9 that was on display there. Was that the original Hero prop? And how badly was it damaged (as in, how much of it was salvageable)? We never got the full story on that fire here in the US.

Steve, thank you so much for posting these! I'm sure there is much gratitude from everyone for you for sharing them with us. (And I did notice the trumpet mouthpiece straight away. My moronic sister started playing the trumpet when she entered Grade 6, and I'll never forget that horrendous noise. She thought she was so great - still does to this day - but she never got beyond what she called "Third Row" in either orchestra or marching band. She always said they were "playing favorites" when they seated people; never once did she consider that she was playing subpar, no matter how many people told her she needed to practice more. So that trumpet mouthpiece sticking out of K-9's nose laser is like looking at a live dog with a huge thorn stuck in its face! Just plain wrong!)

Dino.
"What's wrong with being childish?! I like being childish." -3rd Doctor, "Terror of the Autons"