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Season 20 5 Doctors console plans

Started by Scarfwearer, Aug 22, 2009, 11:50 am

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Scarfwearer

It's great to see some more work being done on this.

To build these plans I used the dimensions of one of the individual top panels which was posted by PurpleBlancmange (who had access to the originals), some geometry and some estimation from low resolution screen captures to extrapolate the rest.
I've omitted some dimensions that can be computed from others because at this early stage some of the other dimensions from my estimations are at least arguable, and I wanted to avoid getting into a situation where every improved estimate of a length or angle produces a cascade of changes to the other dimensions to keep the model geometrically consistent.
It would probably be worth labeling dimensions as , 'measured from the prop', 'estimated from screen captures' or 'computed from another dimension' so we can help keep this straight.

The hexagon calculator on the http://tardisbuilders.com/index.php?board=30.0 board may be helpful here, as there are three sloping hexagonal prisms on this build, and that calculator can be used to help keep the dimensions straight.

Most of the geometry is fairly simple: much can be done with ratios, pythagorases theorem ("why is a mouse"...) and trigonometry. SOHCAHTOA (a mnemonic for: sinθ = O/H, cosθ = A/H, tanθ = O/A)

To compute D:
the vertical height of D looked on from the side is 24" - 2" at the top, - 10" at the bottom, so 12". It's parallel to the edge between the planes of the plinth, so its sloping length will be in ratio with that:

    so 12 * 24.74 / 24 = 12.37" for D or 31.4cm

To compute H:
H will be the width of the plinth panel at the height it is at less 2" on either side (the same as at the top).
There's a 6" difference between the width of the plinth panel at the top and bottom (24" - 18") and we want the width at 10" height out of 24" total height so:

   24" width at base - 6" * (10" / 24" height) - 2 * 2" for offset from plinth panel edge = 17.5" for H

To compute I:
We need pythagoras for this one:
Horizontal: (17.5" - 9") / 2 = 4.25"
Vertical: 10" - 4" = 6"
Slope (I) = sqrt (62 + 4.252) = 7.35" for I

Unless I've messed up somewhere (which is entirely possible)...

It would be great to get some 3D models of these plans together that we can angle and compare with screenshots. Most likely that will unearth some estimation errors on my part, and we can converge on some better estimates.

Crispin

warmcanofcoke

Aug 08, 2012, 11:29 am #16 Last Edit: Aug 08, 2012, 11:39 am by warmcanofcoke
Thank you Crispin. All my measurements are based on your plans. =D Once again thank you for the measurements. I'm sure more questions will appear the more I study the diagram.

rassilonsrod brings up the question
Quote from: rassilonsrod on Aug 08, 2012, 08:06 am
Also, is G the length of the diagonal edge or the distance from long edge to short edge?

I was able to figure out the length of the edge of the edge of the underside panel of the control surface (the orange line "G") What is the height on that trapezoid? (the orange dotted line)

console-mk5v2C-1.jpg
Nate<br /><br /><br />"The Caves of Androzani": <br />Peri - "I thought you knew everything."<br />The Doctor - "Ahhh, not quite; it's going to worry me until I find out what it is."

Scarfwearer

Aug 08, 2012, 01:02 pm #17 Last Edit: Aug 08, 2012, 01:14 pm by Scarfwearer
You can use the console calculator on the http://tardisbuilders.com/index.php?board=30.0 board for both of the orange measurements:
here's a screenshot of it after I put in the figures:
conscalc.PNG

The orange line is 'L' in the calculator results, and the dashed orange line is 's'.
'L' seems to differ from someone's calculation, but I've checked it independently and my calcs match the console calculator (which may not be surprising, as I built the console calculator ;)).

The console calculator exists so that as we refine our estimates of the actual dimensions, we can compute the geometrically dependent dimensions quickly.

Looking at it again, the Kelt console actually has four truncated 6-sided pyramids:
The main panels, the underside panels, the plinth and the collar around the time rotor. You could even count the panel edges as a degenerate fifth, where the top and bottom edges are the same length. The console calculator will compute the trapezoid height, sloping edge length and angles for any of them.

Crispin

warmcanofcoke

Thanks Crispin ... I had tried to use the Console Calculator yesterday but for whatever reason it wanted more information than I had at the time to complete the task - I felt a little foolish to ask for help at the time.
Nate<br /><br /><br />"The Caves of Androzani": <br />Peri - "I thought you knew everything."<br />The Doctor - "Ahhh, not quite; it's going to worry me until I find out what it is."

Scarfwearer

I guess it's not that obvious how it works either. I've never gotten around to writing any instructions for it, so I'm guessing it's rarely been used:
You can change the numbers in the white boxes in any order, and when you hit enter in one of those boxes, the values in the grey boxes are recalculated.
Sometimes if the value I have is one of the grey box numbers, I'll keep trying different values in the white boxes until they match.
It's a piece of Javascript, so the calculation all happens locally on your machine.

Crispin

warmcanofcoke

Aug 08, 2012, 04:40 pm #20 Last Edit: Aug 08, 2012, 04:50 pm by warmcanofcoke
I'm pretty sure I've read posts where people have used your calculator to their satisfaction. And now that I have all the information I'm sure I too will make use of it.
Nate<br /><br /><br />"The Caves of Androzani": <br />Peri - "I thought you knew everything."<br />The Doctor - "Ahhh, not quite; it's going to worry me until I find out what it is."

warmcanofcoke

used the calculator today -works great =D
Nate<br /><br /><br />"The Caves of Androzani": <br />Peri - "I thought you knew everything."<br />The Doctor - "Ahhh, not quite; it's going to worry me until I find out what it is."

Rassilons Rod

Here are the two grabs from the original plans that I know of. The guy over on that other site that displays the collections of collectors has posted two images from them but unless something has happened that I don't know about he won't share anything else.  Apparently the plans are too fragile for that............................................

Anyway:

This might be of *some* help to extrapolate at least some accuracy for part of this prop.

tard2.jpg
tard3.jpg

And just for the hell of it, the corner that proves authenticity.
tard1.jpg
In the cities in the streets there's a tension you can feel,
The breaking strain is fast approaching, guns and riots.
Politicians gamble and lie to save their skins,
And the press get fed the scapegoats,
Public Enema Number One.

warmcanofcoke

Once again you come to my rescue - you are a wealth of information ROD!  :D
Nate<br /><br /><br />"The Caves of Androzani": <br />Peri - "I thought you knew everything."<br />The Doctor - "Ahhh, not quite; it's going to worry me until I find out what it is."

Rassilons Rod

Sep 26, 2012, 02:54 pm #24 Last Edit: Sep 26, 2012, 02:54 pm by rassilonsrod
He's taken these images down from richardwho.com now. I think he was probably sick of people pestering him about them.

To be honest, if it was me, I would just scan the damn things and get it over with. If they're THAT fragile, wouldn't you want to preserve the info? But no, apparently the paper they were printed on is too precious for that.

Oh well, each to their own.

Glad I could help :)
In the cities in the streets there's a tension you can feel,
The breaking strain is fast approaching, guns and riots.
Politicians gamble and lie to save their skins,
And the press get fed the scapegoats,
Public Enema Number One.

Mark

Sep 26, 2012, 06:32 pm #25 Last Edit: Sep 26, 2012, 06:38 pm by Mark
It does anoy me a little when people buy original items of famous things, brag about owning them and then simply lock them away for the rest of time for no body else to see.

Fair enough in this case there is the copy right issue and the fragile nature of the paper.

Each to there own of course, but if I buy something it is to enjoy, not lock away and if I can share the love of the item with others, then I do. I guess this sort of thing is similar to collectors of models and toys who don't even open the box in order to keep them in mint condition. I personally don't understand how you can enjoy the item if you can't even see it.

As I said, each to there own.

lespaceplie

I going to give these a slight refresh - not much new but collating some things we know about the dims. They're mostly right as-is, but the base needs some work. Per usual, I invite everyone to jump in.

"Why are revisiting these now?" nobody asked. Because I need a scale model for the always fluctuating / never finished fan vid, of course! I'll wait to start that thread until I've cut plastic, but a 1:3 model is planned.

Also, I believe this one was built 100% metric (for once).

galacticprobe

Oct 22, 2014, 05:04 am #27 Last Edit: Oct 22, 2014, 05:21 am by galacticprobe
Quote from: Mark on Sep 26, 2012, 06:32 pm
It does anoy me a little when people buy original items of famous things, brag about owning them and then simply lock them away for the rest of time for no body else to see.

Annoying is a vast understatement. It's like they're waggling it in front of your face going "Look what I've got, but I won't let you see it! Nyaah!" (I know someone, that knows someone who was lucky enough to win a full-size TARDIS prop from one of the Bonham's auctions; that person lives in the US and refuses to give out even one inch of the prop's dimensions. Need I say more?)

Quote from: Mark on Sep 26, 2012, 06:32 pm
Fair enough in this case there is the copy right issue...

I think when he bought the plans, he became the rightful owner and could do anything he wants with them. He could share, but refuses, choosing to be a miser about it instead.

Quote from: Mark on Sep 26, 2012, 06:32 pm
...and the fragile nature of the paper.

If the paper was that fragile, then he should be wearing those white gloves while handling it. He's not, so the paper is obviously more resilient than he's making it out to be.

Quote from: Mark on Sep 26, 2012, 06:32 pm
Each to there own of course, but if I buy something it is to enjoy, not lock away and if I can share the love of the item with others, then I do. I guess this sort of thing is similar to collectors of models and toys who don't even open the box in order to keep them in mint condition. I personally don't understand how you can enjoy the item if you can't even see it.

I know people like that. One of those people always buys in sets of three: one to keep locked "Mint In Box", just so he can admire it (and wave it at others to show off); one to keep locked "Mint In Box" for future selling when "the market is right"... he's actually planning to use these things as part of his retirement fund; and one that he actually opens, not necessarily to "play" with, but to handle and admire it in his grubby little hands. (I wish I had his money for all the "triplets" he's bought!) Back in 1996 when they came out with the 30th Anniversary set of 'Star Trek Barbie & Ken' ($75, when that was a good amount of money), he bought three ($225) in one go. Six months later my wife bought one for $10 at a yard sale - never opened, and being sold in a nasty divorce. (I'd hate to have been that guy when he found out how much his soon-to-be ex sold that ST Barbie set for! And no, these were different people.)

Quote from: Mark on Sep 26, 2012, 06:32 pm
As I said, each to there own.

Agreed. But if you're going to do that - as is your right - then keep the bloody thing to yourself and don't show off for the sake of doing so. (Yeah: annoying is a serious, definite understatement!)

Dino.
"What's wrong with being childish?! I like being childish." -3rd Doctor, "Terror of the Autons"

lespaceplie

Nov 08, 2014, 04:20 am #28 Last Edit: Nov 08, 2014, 04:23 am by lespaceplie
I'm not ready to publish the PDF, but here's a little graphic progress report. Suffice it to say that the previously estimated ideas about this prop were pretty much subtly wrong throughout. The width of the main panels, base and the crown are about the only spot on dims. The base and the proportion of the indentations in the main panels needed some serious rethinking. The most iffy area left is getting the CRT enclosures just right. I'm very confident of the rest being closer than ever before. The more I reverse engineer the plans, the more I love this console!

progress.jpg

warmcanofcoke

When you do publish the PDF. I'd love to get a copy from you.
Nate<br /><br /><br />"The Caves of Androzani": <br />Peri - "I thought you knew everything."<br />The Doctor - "Ahhh, not quite; it's going to worry me until I find out what it is."