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the tardis main doors

Started by Teletran, May 24, 2006, 02:13 am

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Teletran

Aug 02, 2009, 07:39 am #15 Last Edit: Jan 28, 2010, 01:06 pm by scarfwearer
I've found a few more pictures that might be useful:

doctorwho028.th.png

doctorwho219.th.png

One from the aforementioned pilot episode and one from season 16.
In the first picture you can see the untapered end of the open door so we might be able to extract another data point as to the thickness of the door and maybe even use some of the Brachacki box measurements for reference. The second image suggests that the "back roundels" of the Newbery MK.2 style console room doors (season 15 plus) are not recessed quite as deeply as the front roundels this might be why Scarfwearer and I worked out different thicknesses for the doors, more research is indicated.
(http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/1360/omni02g.jpg)

DoctorWho8

Aug 02, 2009, 03:18 pm #16 Last Edit: Jan 28, 2010, 01:06 pm by scarfwearer
In the Pertwee Era, when they were still using the original TARDIS set walls before Time Monster and The Three Doctors, they added a panel to the back of the doors, making them thicker.  I think the original doors were 9in. thick, with the panel added it probably made the door 10.5 - 11in. thick, and from season 15 onwards the doors were 11 - 12in. thick.  These are my feelings on this, nothing concrete.
Bill Rudloff

Teletran

Aug 02, 2009, 04:05 pm #17 Last Edit: Jan 28, 2010, 01:06 pm by scarfwearer
I forgot to remeasure the picture based the new hinge size which both Scarfwearer and I agree on so yes 9" (Whoops!)
(http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/1360/omni02g.jpg)

Scarfwearer

Aug 19, 2009, 06:32 pm #18 Last Edit: Jan 28, 2010, 01:07 pm by scarfwearer
Quote from: croooow board=discussconsoles thread=1683 post=21890 time=1250682242Is it possible when they revamped the set for The Five Doctors they used the same doors but flipped the left door upside down?

It seems entirely possible (and yes, of course - glad you think my diregram is worth chopping up :)).
here's a shot of the post 5 docs doors:
st--7c12c.jpg
Having said that, my best estimate of the width between roundel edge and door crack is 3" for the post 5-docs door, and 4" for the wider of the Hartnell doors, so I'm leaning towards a new set of doors at this point. Or perhaps they hacked the old ones around a bit. On the other hand, given the fuzziness of this image,  it seems quite possible that you're right and they just flipped one over and moved the roundels to the other side. Possibly someone with a post 5 docs DVD can get a clearer screen cap of the 'new' doors.

Crispin

croooow

Aug 19, 2009, 07:47 pm #19 Last Edit: Jan 28, 2010, 01:08 pm by scarfwearer
Here's a few dvd grabs that I hope might help.

Logopolis
vlcsnap-2009-08-19-14h55m46s109.png

Earth Shock
vlcsnap-2009-08-19-15h22m48s246.png

vlcsnap-2009-08-19-15h22m58s87.png

The Five Doctors
vlcsnap-2009-08-19-15h02m46s193.png

The Cave of Androzani behind-the-scenes of the regeneration
vlcsnap-2009-08-19-15h25m41s211.png

vlcsnap-2009-08-19-15h25m30s124.png

vlcsnap-2009-08-19-15h25m22s51.png

vlcsnap-2009-08-19-15h25m19s179.png

The Trial of a Time Lord part 5
vlcsnap-2009-08-19-14h51m11s200.png

vlcsnap-2009-08-19-15h12m17s60.png

vlcsnap-2009-08-19-15h12m31s241.png

vlcsnap-2009-08-19-15h13m39s163.png
"I calculated the odds of this succeeding versus the odds I was doing something incredibly stupid, and I went ahead anyway." - Crow T. Robot, Mystery Science Theater 3000: The Movie

Scarfwearer

Aug 19, 2009, 10:07 pm #20 Last Edit: Jan 28, 2010, 01:09 pm by scarfwearer
Much better pictures! Thanks!

Measuring from these, I think you were correct: both of the later doors look like 3.5" from roundel to edge, whereas the earlier doors looks like 2" and 3.5" for the two sides. Perhaps they really did flip the left door upside down.
Presumably the doorway is 1.5" wider from the 5 doctors onward... and I need to update the numbers on the plan further up this thread.

Crispin

celation

Aug 20, 2009, 10:13 am #21 Last Edit: Jan 28, 2010, 01:09 pm by scarfwearer
Can I ask a dumb question?

Do we know that the old roundels are 24" in diameter, or is it still a guess?

I presume we know the diameter of the new GRP roundels which are stuck either side of the doors on the walls (Vervoids image). Is that any use in measuring the old roundel size?

Roundel size is of course an excellent ruler for measuring furniture, props, etc., so if we can get this right - it'll be pretty useful.

I like your bevelled door edge, Crispin. It makes a lot of sense to me. That way, they're less likely to jam when opening/closing; plus, you can't easily see through the gap between them.

C.

DoctorWho8

Aug 20, 2009, 03:53 pm #22 Last Edit: Jan 28, 2010, 01:09 pm by scarfwearer
The thing about the 5 Doctors doors is that they were completely new constructions.  What we are forgetting is that when the doors are open, there are extensions on the backside that cover up the hinges and joins.  I don't have time right now to draw or do screen caps, but if someone could take one where the 1st Doctor & Susan enter the TARDIS in 5 Doctors, you'll see what I mean.
Bill Rudloff

Scarfwearer

Aug 20, 2009, 05:22 pm #23 Last Edit: Jan 28, 2010, 01:09 pm by scarfwearer
Quote from: celation on Aug 20, 2009, 10:13 amCan I ask a dumb question?

Do we know that the old roundels are 24" in diameter, or is it still a guess?

I will check with PurpleBlancmange when he gets back. I believe he did a few measurements of the actual sets at some time in the past. He did confirm that the doors are 6'6" tall, which is consistent with the door roundels being 24", which he may also have mentioned, though I can't find any record of that.

Crispin

croooow

Aug 20, 2009, 08:23 pm #24 Last Edit: Jan 28, 2010, 01:10 pm by scarfwearer
Here's a screen grab of the bit you where talking about DoctorWho8.
vlcsnap-2009-08-20-13h50m00s216.png
To save money instead of building brand new doors is it possible that they flipped the one door then added extended pieces to the backs of the old ones?
"I calculated the odds of this succeeding versus the odds I was doing something incredibly stupid, and I went ahead anyway." - Crow T. Robot, Mystery Science Theater 3000: The Movie

DoctorWho8

Aug 21, 2009, 01:22 am #25 Last Edit: Jan 28, 2010, 01:10 pm by scarfwearer
Quote from: croooow on Aug 20, 2009, 08:23 pmHere's a screen grab of the bit you where talking about DoctorWho8.  To save money instead of building brand new doors is it possible that they flipped the one door then added extended pieces to the backs of the old ones?


Thank you sir.  I don't think they could flip the door around as the roundels in the front are about 2/3 the way into the door thickness, and the back roundels are about 1/3 the way.  I've made a drawing that illustrates how the 5 Doctor's console room doors look and work to me.
fivedoctorstardisdoors.jpg
Bill Rudloff

Teletran

Aug 21, 2009, 08:11 am #26 Last Edit: Jan 28, 2010, 01:10 pm by scarfwearer
I don't think we can rule out the old doors based on the roundels because for most of their history the roundels were completely hollowed out, originally with bits of plastic stapled on the back. So it should have been relatively easy to move the fibreglass roundels around. I considered this when we were deciding if the tom baker doors were the originals.


Also I'm not sure the doors in the previous diagram have enough clearance to open. An easy way to check is to draw a circle (with a compass or on the computer) with the pivot point at its centre, draw a line where the circle crosses the front and back of the door plane this will define an angle that will insure smooth movement.
(http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/1360/omni02g.jpg)

meantimebob

Aug 21, 2009, 12:08 pm #27 Last Edit: Jan 28, 2010, 01:11 pm by scarfwearer
Don't know if this is of any use to anyone or if there's already been a similar image posted, or if this is the right place to post it. Here's a roundel anyway, its 50cm across. The other measurements might help judging other things.

roundel.jpg

croooow

Aug 22, 2009, 02:56 am #28 Last Edit: Jan 28, 2010, 01:12 pm by scarfwearer
If you look at this picture from The Ribos Operation you can see the light bleed through the door roundel holes and the piece that the fiber glass roundels are on.
DoorsRibos.jpg
It looks like they attached the later roundels  onto a wooden ring then shoved it into the old 24" holes. kind of like this.
DoorRoundelIntoDoor.jpg
This means they aren't physically part of the door and could easily be shifted. So if the door were flipped it wouldn't have been that hard to realign them. This also leads to the possibility that the door could have been flipped by accident. One person could have removed the hinges and popped out the roundels in preparation of there refurb. A second person who was doing the refurb assumed the doors where mirror images of each other and put the new extended backs on and put the roundels back in not realizing they flipped one of them.
"I calculated the odds of this succeeding versus the odds I was doing something incredibly stupid, and I went ahead anyway." - Crow T. Robot, Mystery Science Theater 3000: The Movie

Teletran

Aug 22, 2009, 08:42 am #29 Last Edit: Jan 28, 2010, 01:13 pm by scarfwearer
I completely agree and nice diagram by the way.

At this point we seem to be dancing around the roundels like some bizarre Mexican hat dance, so I'll ditto some of the relevant posts and suggest we give them their own thread, maybe on TBF in the design and reference section. I can at least say that what we know about the roundels now far outweighs what was known 5 years ago when I first started work on my console.



Quote from: purpleblancmange board=discussconsoles thread=1666 post=12408 time=1126280909Okay, here we go again - steady yourselves now as "The Great Roundel Debate (tm)" is back, this time with a vengeance.  Grrr - I can sense you all quaking in your boots.

Over all diameter = 19.5"
Edging = 3.25"
Interior "plate" diameter = 13"

Here's a sectional cut through sketch, on the front of my Water Bill.  Well, what other use are they?
100_0593.jpg

Here's a full on view:
100_0585.jpg

And a close up on the edge detail:
100_0589.jpg

Enjoy.  Rulers, measuring sticks and scarves - cm on the front, inches on the back - at the ready!


Quote from: timerotor board=discussconsoles thread=1666 post=12441 time=1206575409I thought I would post this here, as it seemed the appropriate place.
cheers. Time Rotor ;)
DSC00427-1-1.jpg
believe it or not, that is on the screen almost ( not quite) to full size scale.
put a piece of paper on the screen and trace it, you have your stencil! well its a start!

roundelreference.jpg
.... see


This covers most of what is currently known of the Newbery style roundels, the diameter of the older style is confirmed by comparison as approximately 2 ft. This tallies closely with the measurements provided by meantimebob.
(http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/1360/omni02g.jpg)