Tardis vs. Police Box

[kingpin]

View attachment 183320 View attachment 183322

The two shots kinda underscore the silliness with making the boxes out of wood and leaving the grain/giving the boxes woodgrain, while it helps us to identify which boxes have appeared where in the various media, it also shows that there's more than "one TARDIS".

I wish we could eradicate the "all Police boxes were completely made of wood" myth.

EDIT: Quote added for context in split topic -- SW

 

[lorisarvendu]

I wish we could eradicate the "all Police boxes were completely made of wood" myth.

I think we're kind of stuck with it, for a fairly good reason.  If the TARDIS was an accurate copy of a Police box, then not only would it be made of concrete, but it would only have one door, which would make it even more awkward for actors to get in and out of the prop.  You couldn't give it two doors because then it wouldn't have been accurate (and that would be the whole point of saying it was concrete anyway). 

This would also make shots where both doors open - like the 10th Doctor's triumphant entrance on the Sycorax spaceship - not...quite...so triumphant.  And to modern audiences (who let's face it, 90% of which have never even seen a Police box, let alone know it's construction) it's a lot easier just to say wood.

Anyway, who's to say it's not originally based on the earlier wooden models.  ;P

 

[karsthotep]

Sort of off topic but also on.  I work on a military base supporting an DoD university.  The buildings that we are housed in are old barracks.  In the basements if you look at the concrete walls
you can see wood grain from the formers that were used when the foundations were originally poured.  Not just subtle grain, very deep thick heavy wood grain embedded in the concerte,  very cool to see. 

 

[galacticprobe]

I wish we could eradicate the "all Police boxes were completely made of wood" myth.

I think we're kind of stuck with it... If the TARDIS was an accurate copy of a Police box... it would only have one door, which would make it even more awkward for actors to get in and out of the prop. ...  

This would also make shots where both doors open - like the 10th Doctor's triumphant entrance on the Sycorax spaceship - not... quite... so triumphant.

Let's also not forget the 9th Doctor's dramatic entrance into the TARDIS in "Father's Day" only to find there was no interior! With one door, this would also have not been quite as dramatic.

And to modern audiences (who let's face it, 90% of which have never even seen a Police box, let alone know it's construction) it's a lot easier just to say wood.

While this is sadly true as 90 percent of modern audiences didn't start watching 'Doctor Who' until the New Series brought it back to TV, I think most of the blame for this (maybe "blame" is a harsh word, but I'm stuck thinking of a better one) falls on the New Series' prop designers and builders. First they gave us a Series 1-4 TARDIS that looked wood-grained, and then they gave us a Series 5-6 box that really highlighted the wood grain. Granted as Series 6 wore on, and Series 7 moved into Series 8-10, the wood grain sort of faded into hiding behind a heavier paint job, but the "wooden police box" damage had already been done.

Those new fans who are now playing catch-me-up on the Classic Series stories (and those of us older fans who remember it) will notice that none of those TARDISes ever showed wood grain. No one really knew what the props were made of (wood, fiberglas, from the prop aspect) or what they were "supposed to be" made of (from a TARDIS aspect). If not for the wobbliness the props developed as they aged, and suffered from the wear and tear of daily use while making up to 42 episodes a year (B&W) and 26 eps a year (color - that is until after the hiatus when there were only 14 eps a year, until the final season), people may have gone on thinking the prop was one solid piece. (Not the literal solid since actors went in and out of it, but you know what I mean... I hope.)

Anyway, who's to say it's not originally based on the earlier wooden models.  ;P

And this is a very good arguing point for the wood grain shown on the early New Series TARDISes.

Sort of off topic but also on. I work on a military base supporting an DoD university. The buildings that we are housed in are old barracks. In the basements if you look at the concrete walls you can see wood grain from the formers that were used when the foundations were originally poured. Not just subtle grain, very deep thick heavy wood grain embedded in the concerte, very cool to see.

I've also seen this sort of thing, and on more than just walls. It's made me question more than once what the thing I was looking at was made of: wood? fiberglas? concrete? something done up to look like wood with sand-textured paint on it?

I think this sort of wood-looking concrete effect is more pronounced where the moisture in the concrete mix manages to raise the wood grain before the concrete has a chance to set, and therefor shows more of the wood grain. So it is possible for something made from concrete to look like wood... though if the former is reusable, after a while I think the grain texture would start wearing off and you'd see more of the ordinary concrete look.

I hope some of this makes sense.

Dino.

 

[rassilonsrod]

Let's also not forget the 9th Doctor's dramatic entrance into the TARDIS in "Father's Day" only to find there was no interior! With one door, this would also have not been quite as dramatic.
Dino.

On the other hand, this was not so dramatic

View attachment 63554

 

[kingpin]

I wonder why it never occurred to hang a curtain of some sort.

 

[phillbarron]

As a kid I assumed all Police Boxes had been made out of wood, partly because the current (Newberry) TARDIS clearly was, but mostly because that's the way the TARDIS was always described in the Target novelisations: a battered wooden box.

I think.

Unless I'm imagining that last bit.

 

[davros skaro]

I've been watching doctor who for many years, & re-watched them many times, & the doctor has always referred to it as being "a blue wooden box". In the stories "The Stolen Earth" & "Journey's End", where the Daleks have captured the Tardis, the doctor says to Rose, Jack & Donna "No use staying in here, those wooden doors are just wood & they can get in" something along those lines anyway.

The Doctor also has referred to himself as being "Just a mad man in an old blue wooden box".

Also on the season 2 DVD sets special features, they have the Proms & they show you them setting up for the show. At one point, near the beginning, you see them bringing in the panels for the Tardis, & it looks like either fiberglass or pressed metal sheet, made to fit together for the prop on stage.

Hope this makes sense & helps.

Chris.

 

[kingpin]

I've been watching doctor who for many years, & re-watched them many times, & the doctor has always referred to it as being "a blue wooden box". In the stories "The Stolen Earth" & "Journey's End", where the Daleks have captured the Tardis, the doctor says to Rose, Jack & Donna "No use staying in here, those wooden doors are just wood & they can get in" something along those lines anyway.

The Doctor also has referred to himself as being "Just a mad man in an old blue wooden box".

Indeed, but those references largely (and likely) come about from the original mistaken belief (or erroneous claim) when New Who went into production.  It isn't definitive proof that the box has always been considered to be made of wood during the show's history (I note here I've not had the pleasure of getting to see all of the available stories) - I'm not presently aware of references being made to the box being constructed of wood in the classic serials.  The Target novelisations are forgiveable as information on the boxes would've been less easily accessible at the time they were written.

Also on the season 2 DVD sets special features, they have the Proms & they show you them setting up for the show. At one point, near the beginning, you see them bringing in the panels for the Tardis, & it looks like either fiberglass or pressed metal sheet, made to fit together for the prop on stage.

Fibreglass, though I'm not sure what part that information about the Proms plays in things.

 

[rassilonsrod]

I wonder why it never occurred to hang a curtain of some sort.

They did start to, a bit later, during Tom's run.

But in this case, just closing the sodding doors would have helped

 

[Volpone]

Don't know about Target novelizations, but I'd swear there's at least one classic serial that refers to the TARDIS as a "black wooden box."  My brain wants to say Ian says it in a Hartnell serial, given that the TARDIS was a lot darker and shot in black & white to boot, but it could have been Pertwee.  He seemed to always be losing the TARDIS--Peladon, Colony in Space, etc. 

 

[galacticprobe]

Don't know about Target novelizations, but I'd swear there's at least one classic serial that refers to the TARDIS as a "black wooden box."  My brain wants to say Ian says it in a Hartnell serial, given that the TARDIS was a lot darker and shot in black & white to boot,...

As far as novelizations go, I think it all depends on who writes them. I mean, even though the show originally started out in B&W, everyone at the time knew that Police Boxes were blue (sometimes red if you were in Scotland, but mostly blue). So there would be no sense in anyone referring to the TARDIS as "black". I still haven't seen all of the Classic stories either - still collecting the ones being restored - but from all those that were available when we could get the show on PBS (and I am going back to the mid-to-late 1980s), I don't remember anyone during the Hartnell or Troughton era referring to the TARDIS as a "wooden" box: a blue box on occasion, but never a wooden one. (Maybe in one of the restored stories that I haven't gotten yet that was mentioned, but not in any I've seen so far.)

but it could have been Pertwee.  He seemed to always be losing the TARDIS--Peladon, Colony in Space, etc.

Yeah... they both managed to misplace the TARDIS now and then. I remember Tom Baker's Doctor asking the occasional passerby something like "Excuse me, but you haven't seen a large blue box by any chance, have you?" while using his hands to mimic the shape as he would add "It's about, oh, so big..."

I remember reading somewhere that the TARDIS was described as being "a battered old box", or a "battered blue box" - one of those behind-the-scenes books, I think; but even there the word "wood" was never used. And I think Kingpin hit the nail on the head with his comment about this "wooden" box coming about with the New Series, since from Series 1 through 6 the TARDIS had the wood grain showing. The comment made in "The Stolen Earth" / "Journey's End" about the doors being "just wood" struck me as odd, mainly because the structure of the TARDIS, inside or out, was never given in such definitive terms before.

On the other hand, this was not so dramatic

View attachment 63554

No, but it sure as heck was a load of fun! (And still is every time I watch that one!)

Dino.

 

[scarfwearer]

I think the whole wooden box thing was largely Terrance Dicks, who was script editor for a long time and also wrote many (most?) of the novelizations. I'm pretty sure he used the word 'wood' to describe it in one of the DVD extras.

 

[rassilonsrod]

On the other hand, this was not so dramatic

View attachment 63554

No, but it sure as heck was a load of fun! (And still is every time I watch that one!)

Dino.

Oh I enjoy The Three Doctors very much. But the open doors make me cringe every time.

I'd love to do a version of that scene with a console room hiding the inside of the box...

 

[phillbarron]

I think the whole wooden box thing was largely Terrance Dicks, who was script editor for a long time and also wrote many (most?) of the novelizations. I'm pretty sure he used the word 'wood' to describe it in one of the DVD extras.

The reason I brought the Target books up was that in those pre-video recorder dark ages they were the only way to 'rewatch' episodes.

So if Terrance Dicks did refer to it as a wooden box (which I think he did,  but can't be 100% sure without checking) then to the kids at the time who grew up to be the current writers and show runners of the new series that idea of the TARDIS being a wooden box would be considered a 'fact'.

 

[no more]

I've been watching doctor who for many years, & re-watched them many times, & the doctor has always referred to it as being "a blue wooden box". In the stories "The Stolen Earth" & "Journey's End", where the Daleks have captured the Tardis, the doctor says to Rose, Jack & Donna "No use staying in here, those wooden doors are just wood & they can get in" something along those lines anyway.

Wood has been New Series canon from the start; the TARDIS is referred to as a “wooden box” in dialog in ‘Rose’ (granted, by Ms Tyler and not by the Doctor).  Rose’s first sight of the TARDIS behind the restaurant when fleeing a headless Auton duplicate.

 

[galacticprobe]

I think the whole wooden box thing was largely Terrance Dicks, who was script editor for a long time and also wrote many (most?) of the novelizations. I'm pretty sure he used the word 'wood' to describe it in one of the DVD extras.

So... considered "semi-canon" for Classic TARDISes?

Oh I enjoy The Three Doctors very much. But the open doors make me cringe every time.

Well, rather than thinking of this sort of scene as "cringeworthy", perhaps think of it as looking into that black void we always see through the main doors from the inside, only now we're seeing it from the "outside". (It might lessen the pain ;D)

Dino.

 

[russellsuthern]

This is an interesting thread.

Curious how childhood memories play tricks on you...

Before I found this site, I just assumed Police Boxes were wood.
I certainly thought the TARDIS prop was wood, they way it shook & rattled when people came in & out of it, there was no way it was concrete!

I'm sure Terrance referred to the TARDIS as a "battered old blue wooden box..."  Have to re read those TARGET books.

As for the dark interior of the TARDIS back in the old series, I agree with Dino, I always believed there was a "Time Void" which meant the interior of the TARDIS looked black, until you actually stepped through the doors & the control room was revealed...

Regards,

Russell

 

[phillbarron]

I just checked a random selection of 10 Terrence Dicks books ...

None of them mention wood in reference to the TARDIS.

10 out of 150-odd is hardly conclusive, but t looks like I may be wrong about the Target books being the source of the wood myth.

It's probably just as likely an assumption based on the prop. Like Russell says they wobble like wood.

 

[lym]

Don't know about Target novelizations, but I'd swear there's at least one classic serial that refers to the TARDIS as a "black wooden box."  My brain wants to say Ian says it in a Hartnell serial, given that the TARDIS was a lot darker and shot in black & white to boot, but it could have been Pertwee.  He seemed to always be losing the TARDIS--Peladon, Colony in Space, etc.

That's The Ark, although it's not referred to as wooden, just black.

I've checked through episode transcripts from chakoteya thanks to Google's exact keyword function, and the earliest mention of it being a wooden box I can find is in The Chase, where Morton Dill calls it "some kind of beat-up old blue wooden box", then in The Dominators when the Doctor describes it as being wooden.