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River Song's Diary Pages

Stills taken from River Song Monster Files.
Weeping Angels.
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Picture 10.pngPicture 13.png
Picture 12.png
Vampires
Picture 14.pngPicture 16.png
Picture 18.png
Silurians
Picture 19.pngPicture 20.png
Picture 21.png SPOILERS
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STILL TACKEN FROM SILENCE IN THE LIBRARY
River song diary forest of the dead.png

~~~Aliza
 
I started trying to decode what was writen on the last picture,
here is what I have.
This has Become ___ Ours ____ an _____ ____ ___ A ____ Who Is That ____ B (<3) ____ Is ___ Today Alone ___ ___ ____ Mans __ Life ____ ___ ___ In ____ ___ ___ Coin

Thats all I could get from the first page. what do you make of it?  Anyone want to see if they can fill in the missing words?  I wonder if its just random senteces.

Here is the second page.

Is (PAGE BLOCK) Saturn (?) (more page block) War (more page block) _____ (more page block) I (more page block) Coal ___ I ___ Live In ______(more page block) Pauline and ___a Love _____ ____ __ Imagine __ Dear__ __ __ Ion _______ ___ __No war Pawn

Thats all I was able to get from page 2

Not much I know, tell me what you think.
~Aliza
 
I wonder if any of these pages were ever meant to legible or to actually make any sense beyond the stories we've seen on screen? I would doubt it since they'd be spoilers to stories that aren't written yet...
 
you could have a point there but if you fill in the blanks it makes an interesting story. =D
i know this is a bit of a stretch but think of the vampires of venice. i filled in the blanks.

Is the planet Saturn (?) preparing War?
 
Of course how would River know anything about the non-vampires in Venice having not been along for that adventure? :)

There was a filled in River diary posted a while back on therpf.com one could probably find just searching "River Song" over there that I remember that was a bit neater with more calligraphic handwriting I'd expect River to have. It would be neat once the River arc is finally over to have one that actually has all the adventures they have as well as some off-screen stuff as a bound book. It would be an interesting publishing project if it were commercially done to get a half-falling apart 'new' book.
 
was working on the last imige in apeture to see if i could recover the entire text (did not work) but I did find this, drPicture 5.png
Does any one else see the 10th doctor?
 
Elvis Gump said:
There was a filled in River diary posted a while back on therpf.com one could probably find just searching "River Song" over there that I remember that was a bit neater with more calligraphic handwriting I'd expect River to have.

You wouldn't happen to know if it's still there, or where to find it (as in a link), would you? I've been looking over the place for days using every combination of "River Song", "Diary", "Journal", "Book", etc. and haven't found it. (Found lots of other cool journal things, but not River's.)

Dino.
 
Sure, this is the entry I meant which is better really than any others I've seen but the poster only did two posts and nothing else. http://www.therpf.com/f9/river-songs-book-doctor-who-92101/index2.html#post1459222

If after the River Song storyline runs it course it would be great if there is a published version of the diary that has a coherent story in true diary format with drawings would be a great collectors item.

One of the things I've wondered that Moffat might do at some point is cast a younger actress to play River from earlier in her time-line to tell the bulk of the characters story with the current or future Doctor to imply they'd known each other for decades and that the version played by Kingston was the second half of a star-crossed romance.

I've always thought the perfect end for the story would be the last time the Doctor sees River is the day she meets him for the first time to mirror the way he met her in "Silence in the Library/Forests of the Dead". And that the diary is a blank book he finds in a little shop and gives her as a present. It would be interesting if say his last words to her were something along the lines of Tennant's line in "End of Time" where he'd say "Tell you what, I bet you're gonna have a great life". It's the sappy romantic in me....
 
Elvis Gump said:
Of course how would River know anything about the non-vampires in Venice having not been along for that adventure? :)

(At the risk of missing a subtle rhetorical question) The Doctor probably told her.
 
Yes, of course being somewhat rhetorical is the obvious answer, but to spell it out why is she writing about things she didn't experience with him? Not many people seem to keep journals anymore which is a tab sad because you learn all sorts of things about your own memories and perception of time if you have. Which anyone that has kept journals will tell you that River's 'journal' is really rather metaphorical because most of us that fill up Moleskins and other blank books tend to fill up something River's journal size in less than a year.

I have shelves full of them from the 80-90s when I was more prolific at keeping them and sometimes going back through them looking for a bit of info, something particular amusingly shows me that what I retain in my head often doesn't jive anymore with what I wrote down at the time. If I try to guess the year something obscure happened I find I misremember a lot more than I think I do. And after 25 or 30 years it's great fun to laugh at things written by a much younger version of myself and think of the spectacular arguments I have disagreeing with him over his points of view, conclusions and so forth.

So back to River; to me why is she filling in this preciously small book with things that didn't happen when they were together? There's all sorts of implications that she's written stuff in there that wouldn't fit all in one tiny little journal like in "Time of the Angels" where she has a throwaway line about having images of all his faces but him never showing up in the right order. Which immediately is a problem if you think about it because this precedes "Silence in the Library" so why didn't she know Tennant was the Doctor before he met her? How could she cram just a few adventures she's had with him in there much less the stories that occur in one season of the show?

So the book is a metaphor more than a real plausible diary of years, possibly decades spent together detailing his adventures even with her. It's like the Indiana Jones journal prop where you know Indy wouldn't just have one, he'd have dozens after just a few years of being an archeologist. But that's not how we think when we watch a movie or tv show. We like a good talisman. Remember the tongue in cheek River challenge to the Doctor at the end of "Flesh and Stone":

"That's a fairy tale"
"Doctor! Aren't we all?"
 
Elvis Gump said:
Yes, of course being somewhat rhetorical is the obvious answer, but to spell it out why is she writing about things she didn't experience with him? Not many people seem to keep journals anymore which is a tab sad because you learn all sorts of things about your own memories and perception of time if you have. Which anyone that has kept journals will tell you that River's 'journal' is really rather metaphorical because most of us that fill up Moleskins and other blank books tend to fill up something River's journal size in less than a year.

and yet we see clear images that river kept files on vampires.
 
Yes, but you are far too linear in your thinking about things that are so much worse that they don't mind us thinking they are vampires happened only in Venice.

Think.
About.
It.

Has silence fallen? Yet?

See also "Continuity Errors": http://timelord50data.cz.cc/Documents/Continuity%20Errors%20By%20Steven%20Moffat.pdf


"I told you, I'm a time traveler. I got it in the future."
"I've got a complex life. Things sometimes don't happen to me in the right order."
 
Elvis Gump said:
Yes, of course being somewhat rhetorical is the obvious answer, but to spell it out why is she writing about things she didn't experience with him?

I think Silence in the Library shows it best, in regards to an answer to that, she can use the adventures she wasn't part of as a temporal map to help work out which point in the Doctor's life she's currently crossing over with.

Which immediately is a problem if you think about it because this precedes "Silence in the Library" so why didn't she know Tennant was the Doctor before he met her? How could she cram just a few adventures she's had with him in there much less the stories that occur in one season of the show?

That probably is a continuity error, but it can be compensated for that "she has pictures of all of the Doctor's faces" (as far as she's aware).
 
Kingpin said:
Elvis Gump said:
Yes, of course being somewhat rhetorical is the obvious answer, but to spell it out why is she writing about things she didn't experience with him?

I think Silence in the Library shows it best, in regards to an answer to that, she can use the adventures she wasn't part of as a temporal map to help work out which point in the Doctor's life she's currently crossing over with.


Which immediately is a problem if you think about it because this precedes "Silence in the Library" so why didn't she know Tennant was the Doctor before he met her? How could she cram just a few adventures she's had with him in there much less the stories that occur in one season of the show?

That probably is a continuity error, but it can be compensated for that "she has pictures of all of the Doctor's faces" (as far as she's aware).


If she has some sort of temporal map, then it failed her mightily on the day it would have counted most! Of course the journal has already been erased completely and then 're-written' in a. ahem, bang. Who knows all the things that journal may have contained once that it doesn't now? Now THERE'S a prop I want to see someone tackle - BEHOLD! THE SELF-RE-WRITING TIME JOURNAL! (batteries not included)

But the answer there again is obvious. Why did the message to the Doctor go all wrong in the first place, back to the Tenth Doctor? Because the Doctor it was meant for re-routed it to the 10th Doctor in the Donna Noble era of course. He knew he couldn't go to the Library. It's not a continuity error, it's a causation paradox which Complicated Space Time Events (CSTE) are apparently able to get around. I'll explain - later.

HERE BE SPECULATIVE SPOILER : I believe we are about to see another one of these this season. In the trailers for series six Amy tells the Doctor "You have to do this and you can't ask why." I think this leads to the event where the Doctor is 'killed' and River either causes it or takes the blame, hence her incarceration in Stormcage. I suspect that Amy gets the info from a future version of River and has to make sure the Doctor is at the right time and place to prevent a paradox or greater tragedy or whatnot. The bit in the trailer where Amy shoots someone makes me think she is the 'killer', but River takes the fall for the 'crime' which I would think isn't murder, but a justified kill a someone before they can do something worse. Perhaps another Time Lord who was thought of by some populace as the "Greatest Man Who Ever Lived" but was really, really rotten underneath. Probably has a rubbish beard.

And after that the Doctor is very angry with River for not trusting him to have done his Thing to prevent said killing. ("I was going to do a Thing. I wasn't finished, brain was still thinking of what Thing I was going to do. Respect the Thing!") I think something along those lines is why River fears the Doctor knowing 'who she really is', which is someone who would kill to save his life, which he wouldn't agree with letting her do. She's done this sort of thing in the future you know - day she went and let herself get killed instead of the Doctor.

Of course that could be completely wrong, but I toss it out there in case you want something to fill in your replica River Song diary and you think I'm possibly on to something...
 
Thanks for the link!

And actually, in "Silence In The Library" River did know The Doctor; he just didn't know her, yet. She walked right up to him and said her classic "Hello, Sweetie." When he seemed not to know her, she played along by introducing herself to him (and to us watchers as well). Shortly afterwards - and this is probably not an exact quote - she said to him something like "You're pretending not to know me for some reason." Then she ran through some of their adventures in her journal with him, trying to figure out why The Doctor didn't know her. And once she realized that The Doctor actually didn't know her - because he hadn't met her yet - she was rather sad.

Dino.
 
galacticprobe said:
Thanks for the link!

And actually, in "Silence In The Library" River did know The Doctor; he just didn't know her, yet. She walked right up to him and said her classic "Hello, Sweetie." When he seemed not to know her, she played along by introducing herself to him (and to us watchers as well). Shortly afterwards - and this is probably not an exact quote - she said to him something like "You're pretending not to know me for some reason." Then she ran through some of their adventures in her journal with him, trying to figure out why The Doctor didn't know her. And once she realized that The Doctor actually didn't know her - because he hadn't met her yet - she was rather sad.

Dino.

I want to point out to the mods here I'm getting at something about the content of the River journal that will be clearer about the CONTENT of said journal about the idea of making a River journal replica as the series goes along. So bear with me before you start getting egregious about 'off-topic' and start modding out or moving posts around. I'm getting to a point about the Thing. I'm doing a Thing. Respect the Thing!

Okay, this part goes to CONTENT of ones prop. The next part will deal with what this means in CONSTRUCTING your do-it-yourself prop replica.

I'd argue she didn't recognize the 10th Doctor but knew it had to be him because no one else would be able to get into the Library and she was expecting him to meet her there, so she had to know the 10th Doctor could only be him. Whether she has "all his faces" is a throwaway line, indicating she may have been limited from knowing just how many regenerations he's had.

The 11th Doctor therefore would know that he has to keep his appearance as the 10th Doctor from her or else she'd know instantly in the Library that the 10th Doctor was the Doctor before he knew her. She clearly mistakenly assumes at the outset that he's a future Doctor to her "proper Doctor". The Doctor starts keeping things from River just as she keeps future events from him.

So again, this informs what sort of content would be in her journal. If you want to make up content for a replica, the very last entry has to be about the events of "Silence in the Library" and "Forests of the Dead". The last entry has to be plausible for the brief time between when she knocks the 10th Doctor unconscious and when he comes around to find her having handcuffed him.

So what would she write in those few minutes? Well a lot of what she reiterates to him, that he's always known she would die at the Library. That the Doctor mislead her because he knew how it all played out before she ever met him and that she was content in dying because she'd had a wonderful life with him. That's QUITE the revelation, but it's been dawning on her for hours from the moment she realized what was really going on. I would think the last page would probably contain a quick sketch of the unconscious 10th Doctor and a reiteration of what she is going to tell him when he wakes up and after she's died - DON'T CHANGE A THING.

That the Doctor honors this after a fashion, keeping her ghosting communicator thingy to preserve and build into a modded Sonic later to his former, 10th Doctor self can save her to the virtual reality thing is part of their time line River can't have anticipated of course, but the Doctor has to realize for the remainder of his 10th incarnation and on into the 'future' he must keep things from her. She clearly doesn't know the Crash of the Byzantium hasn't happened to him yet which is problematic because as Prof. Song, she should know he has the wrong face to have met Dr. Song, so the Time of the Angels is near the end of her life. Perhaps she does some work to finalize a PhD between the two events, but clearly she's not Professor Song for very long before her death. She's misjudged that the events of "Angels" is near the end of the 11th Doctors incarnation, not the beginning. So she must not know the 11th Doctor for very long.

It clears the way in a fashion that the Matt and Alex can play these characters and it even end before Matt's tenure is over, but then flare up again with a future Doctor actor and Alex or another actress playing the part as a much younger River.

So here's how these kinds of things inform CONSTRUCTING your prop replica if you want it to actually have whatever "content" you include.

bookbinding.jpg

So for the prop, this would mean while one might want to make a hard-bound book type prop, but one might want to build it in a fashion were new signatures can be added to the book itself so if one wants to make the entries each signature can form a particular adventure with the ability to add and subtract or move around signatures at will.

I should explain when I say "signature" every hard bound book is made of pages of paper that stacked, then are folded over and sewn in the middle.

If you'll look at any hardbound book you have it's not one massive stack of paper folded to form the pages. It's actually a series of stacks which are individually the 'signatures'. If you pull out any hard cover book you own and look at the top or bottom where the pages meet the hard cover, you notice these signatures look like a lot of little magazines pinched together between the hard covers. These are usually sewn with thread rather than stapled as magazines are down the middle, then the thread you can see where there would be staples on a magazine are themselves sewn or joined together and glued to a stiffer paper that wraps all the signatures together at the 'hinge' point of the stiff paper wrapper and this wrapper of sorts connects the front and back insides to the hard bound covering.

A hard bound book uses glue to make the attachment of signatures to the end pages and cover into a permanent and strong unified structure. But for your prop, you want impermanence because you'd want to be able to add place-holder signatures perhaps covering the Doctors past you might want to edit as the story we see in the series unfolds to insert new content.

I've not tried to construct such a prop replica yet, but I have thought about it. One way would be for anyone wanting to do so to learn how to make signatures. This is very easy; just stack say 6-10 pieces of nice paper pre-folded evenly so you can sew them down the middle. Usually three points with ordinary thread near the top and bottom plus in the middle should do it. Once sewn, you'll probably want to invest in a guillotine paper trimmer so you can make the folded signature trimmed off and the proper finished size.

After making as many of these blank signatures as you want or think you'll need, you can pre-distress them by soaking them in say weak tea to stain them, blot them dry carefully air dry them and iron them a bit to make them lie flat-ish later. So you have a blank-books worth of them at this point.

What I would do is make a semi-permanent way to join them at this point. One could weave ribbon small enough through the stitching on each signature to join them together but still be able at a later date to snip the ribbon when one wants to shuffle or add and subtract signatures.

The hard part is making a semi-permanent attachment of the signatures to the hinge part of the wrapper that forms the inside front and back that attach them to the cover. I'm thinking here it might be the thing to make the wrapper sacrificially attached to the hard cover with photo-mounting adhesive sheets. This stuff will form a strong bond but if it's reheated later it will come part in a bit of a sticky mess, so one will probably have to discard the wrapper bit each time it's unattached and make a new one when 're-binding' the signatures when shuffled.

I'm probably making this sound like a more massive undertaking and trouble than it really is. Basically each signature has it's three little sewn points where the thread shows on it's edge facing the spine. If one spaces these so you can get a length of ribbon through each one then the signatures can be pulled and woven through slots cut with an Exacto knife cut into the 'wrapper' and then pulled tight and tied to make them sit in the wrapper at the hinge fold part, but this process can be repeated as necessary, say once a season or so to update it with new content.

Anyway, that's my idea that I toss out to any River Song journal replica makers. I'd love to see any other solutions to this method or ideas anyone else has.
 
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