Original City of London Ambulance Posts

[starcross]

According to page 23 and 24 of "The rise and fall of the Police Box" by John Bunker.

"In 1907 the City of London Police introduced Cast iron Pillars to call the electric Ambulance from Bishopsgate Police Station."
"52 of these pillars were installed in the Square Mile. They were replaced in 1927.



The following photos are of the second style used by the City of London police, I presume these were installed in 1927.
I am not sure if they were installed with the 200 Series telephone as original equipment or if it was a replacement.




The interesting thing about the second style of post is that It has the same crest as the original Ambulance Pillar. But it has the same Fresnel Lantern glass as the Metropolitan Police Post PA2 & PA3 in addition to the 200 series Telephone. It was of similar size as the PA3 Post as well, meaning that it would have made it easy to directly replace.

 

[hb88banzai]

That second City of London type Post seems a very nice design. Do you have any shots that show the whole thing?

I can certainly see now where Trench got the inspiration for the PA2 Metropolitan Police Post. One is constantly reminded that all these things weren't designed in a vacuum and relied heavily on prior designs. Not quite as blatant as the Glasgow Boxes, but still.

 

[starcross]

Do you have any shots that show the whole thing?

I do, It isn't a very good photograph, but it illustrates the design of the entire pillar.
The back complete view is from 1960. The side Profile is from the 1956 Film "The Green Man".
I'm afraid that is everything I know about this particular style of Post.



These two photographs are CoL 55 - Northeast junction of Grey's Inn Road and Holborn.

I have two photos of the PA3 that replaced this style.
The evidence seems to be that they were replaced in the mid-1960s and then stayed in place until at least August 1980.
I'll start a separate topic for that Post.

 

[hb88banzai]

Some captures from "The Lavender Hill Mob" (1951) showing the 1927 style City of London Posts.

First Post is at "the scene of the crime" and is CoL Post 39 on Victoria Street at Friday Street --







This second one is more problematic as they intercut different parts of central London in the scenes leading to it, as well as for different shots supposedly at the same location --





Finally, another passage in "The Rise and Fall of the Police Box" provides some more interesting details about these posts and the PA3s that followed --

"The City of London Police scheme consisted mainly of posts with very few kiosks. The old green posts that seem to have been installed in the late 1920s were replaced in 1965 by standard PA3 style pillars. Not until 1988 did the force substitute these sixty-five posts with, at the time, a free-call telephone facility to the police headquarters from public telephone kiosks located near the abandoned sites. A few posts still remain in the City with preservation orders on them, albeit painted in dark blue rather than the more authentic light blue previously used."

So these middle period 1927 style CoL Posts were green?  

That I did not expect.

 

[starcross]

Lots to learn yet about the Original Ambulance Posts. Bunker has some of it in his book, but since we started this discussion in 2012 the CoL Police have added a history page to their Website about this very topic.
Link: Police Ambulances

An original Ambulance circa 1910.


The Ambulance Fleet Circa 1938


"On 13 May 1907 the City of London Police Ambulance Service came into being. Instead of horses, the service purchased an electrically driven motor ambulance from the Electromobile Company in Mayfair. The 'electric' ambulances were summoned via calls from any of the 52 white coloured police boxes strategically located about the City, routed through Police Headquarters in Old Jewry. The 'electric' ambulances and the white call boxes did sterling service until both were replaced in 1927. The City of London Police Ambulance Service ceased to exist on 5 July 1949 when, under the provisions of the 1946 National Health Act, the two remaining ambulances and the responsibility for the service was transferred to London County Council."


Well now we know why they were called Ambulance Posts, and that they were originally White. That must not have lasted for long because just five years later in 1912 a photo of CoL 05 is shown dark, possibly green like the Ambulance Post No.2 that replaced them. Even later photos into the 1930s have them dark in appearance.

Although I have to wonder why the Ambulance Posts don't seem to have a lever visible for summoning the Ambulance. The AP1 seems to have a circle on the side that might be a lever. However the later AP2 doesn't seem to have anything, even the phone is locked behind the main door.

 

[starcross]

I managed to track down the location of Blueprints for the Ambulance Post 2 design.

However the Telecommunication Heritage Group is a black hole of digital communications. I emailed them several times back in April 2016 and received no reply. It just struck me the other day that I had been waiting six months for a reply.

I'm not sure how else to contact a group such as this other than email, and through their own website forms.

Any ideas?

Update: March 2017
I've since gained membership and managed to download these blueprints.
However they warned that there is some form of Copyright on all Images, so only small thumbnails can be posted here.
Sorry.



This is drawing 60347 from March 14 1934. This is the general arrangement.
   

This is drawing 60348, showing the Base


This is drawing 60349, showing the lower storage section.


This is drawing 60350, showing the Upper communications section.
The interesting thing here is the Number Tag below the Police on the door.
As always it is far too small to read on most photos we find, but it should be there.
If you look on the AP1 it also has a tag in the same place.


This is drawing 60351, Showing the top Lantern.

 

[hb88banzai]

Wow - great find Starcross!!!

Looks like a reasonable facsimile to the GPO motherload we'd been looking for. Lots of info on Met and Edinburgh Police systems as well.

Am pursuing a thread with them for access - will let you know if it leads anywhere.

 

[starcross]

Looks like a reasonable facsimile to the GPO motherload we'd been looking for.
Lots of info on Met and Edinburgh Police systems as well.

Am pursuing a thread with them for access - will let you know if it leads anywhere.

Well it appears that since I last looked into getting access at the beginning of 2016, they added an electronic payment system to gain membership. With just £8 for an electronic membership you can get a membership in the THG (Telecommunications Heritage Group). They also run the Database THGR (Telecommunications Heritage Group Resource), which you can sign up for after you have a THG membership number.

Source: http://www.thgmembership.org.uk/page-394658


Now the Up side for this is that they have a vast collection of Police diagrams from the GPO. Just the PA - Police Alarm files are about 160 drawings and circuit diagrams that we would benefit from seeing.
However the downside is you can only download 10 files a week. It would take me four months just to download the PA Folder. That is without taking into account they also have most of the documentation and specifications that went with those drawings. I'll take years if not decades to download the files available.

That said if each of the historians on here got a membership and took to some co-ordination to download the files it would make it easier to get everything in months not years.

I've been slowly copying the directory information to an excel so I can search/sort it properly offline and mark those that I've downloaded so far. There are so many things to download its not even funny. 

 

[starcross]

This is drawing 60351, Showing the top Lantern.
View attachment 150632

After Spending Far too long cursing long dead designers, the drawing details turns into this 3D model.
Some parts are perfectly dimensioned, others have gaps that don't add up, so I adjusted it to look okay.

The original calls for these parts to be Cast Iron, but I like it in Brass much better.
I'm going to go with artistic License, since the colour photos aren't clear enough to say they weren't brass.

 

[starcross]

This is drawing 60348, showing the Base
View attachment 150634

Again it took a bit of finesse to get the dimensions and lack there of to match with intentions, but I think the end result worked out well enough.

I've made everything below ground rusty as if I've plucked it from the ground. It can also be hidden as it is a separate part in the Assembly, it messes with the environment images.

All the Main Body panels will be this dark olive green that is a material option. I think it matches the original color well enough, and I intend to finish the other drawings in this material "paint".

 

[mark]

You don't hang about do you!

Great work so far. What software are you using out of interest?

Not had chance to look at the site above, what exactly are the plans and information it contains?

I may be tempted to help with your suggestion of signing up and helping download.

 

[starcross]

What software are you using out of interest?

It's called Autodesk Inventor 2015. I'm rather fond of it, I taught myself how to use it this summer. It turns out rather good models, and can export them for 3D printing if I ever get something worth printing.

Not had chance to look at the site above, what exactly are the plans and information it contains?

That's the trick eh?
We're not entirely sure what is all in there, there are no previews. You only get titles to work from and a general idea if its a diagram or a document. A Diagram could be anything from A rough circuit diagram of a Police Box electrics, to detailed blueprints like those that I am turning into these 3D models. The Documents could be anything from a brief specification for Paint to a detailed description of installations.

Just the GPO Police Alarm file is 160 files.
SO far I have a Police box Circuit Diagram, the complete set of Ambulance No.2 Plans, and half of the Plans for a PA No.1 Police Pillar (the triangular ones).

I'm targeting anything that looks like a Blueprint first, then maybe going for the documents. I felt more than gypped by getting the Box circuit diagram instead of a blueprint with a title like "Metropolitan Police K.V & W Divisions. Kiosk Equipment Explanatory Diagram". Frankly I expected more.

So without downloading the PDFs they have available, we only have a vague idea of what is available.

Try following this link and seeing the List of specific police drawings.
THGR / Document Library / GPO / PA - Police Alarms

I've found in just ten documents the price of admission was well worth it.
I want to know more, and there certainly is more to find in that database.
It's almost painful to have to wait until the weekend to download more documents.

I've lined up the Signal unit for the PA2 & PA3 Police Posts next, and the rest of the PA1 Pillar drawings.

 

[mark]

I've just had a look, nothing opens when I click on anything - is this because I've not signed up?

 

[starcross]

Nothing opens when I click on anything - is this because I've not signed up?

That's correct, you can't download any of the PDFs without a THG membership.

This is what I meant by no previews.
You can get a look at the details in the Library card style popup window, but that's it.
To View the PDF you have to use one of the 10 downloads for the week.

This is the nature of the database, or as my Mum would say "Those are the rules, I didn't make them up".

 

[hb88banzai]

Great work, Starcross!

Yes, I joined them back when you brought up the site and the issues you were having. I then applied for access to the separate archive, but never heard back and the website refuses to let me re-apply, and worse seems to have no way to contact anyone to even see if they received my request. Most frustrating.

They have archives of quite a few Met Box and GPO installation details as well. So most tantalizing.

If I can ever get on we could tag team it and down everything useful in much less time.

 

[hb88banzai]

Ooooooo - just went back to the THGR site for the first time in a month and now they know me! Apparently activated my registration without e-mailing me, but they finally had record of my e-mail and so had them "re-send" my password --- I'm on!

Now what to look at first?...

 

[starcross]

I then applied for access to the separate archive, but never heard back and the website refuses to let me re-apply, and worse seems to have no way to contact anyone to even see if they received my request. Most frustrating.

email Telecommunications Heritage Group [admin@thgmembership.org.uk] Alex Clark the Membership Secretary might be able to help. As far a I can tell when I registered for the THGR it was all automated replies.

When I registered I made sure to include my membership reference in the form.
Apparently absolutely nothing is approved without that Membership number, said so in my Welcome email.  
Membership Type: THG Member
THG Membership Number: XXXXXXXX


Still if we can get a few of us in the archive downloading we can get the PA folder downloaded.
AS I said I've already got my next ten downloads planned out, I just have to wait until Friday to reset the counter.

 

[starcross]

This is drawing 60350, showing the Upper communications section.
View attachment 150630

I've taken a day to create a bit more of this Police box. This time its the Main Communications section, though the Roof Molding is quite tricky and it hasn't been coming out at all. It's a whole other weekend or something to work out correctly. It's a complex trim pattern with a 14" radius on the top with a 8" radius upswing.

Here is the progress so far.
The main Body with the Telephone Door, eventually I'll get the door hardware figured out.

 

[warmcanofcoke]

2018-06-11_Metro.jpg

 

[mikey]

Nice clear view of the crest