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Locations of Metropolitan Police Boxes and Posts

S

scarfwearer

Administrator
A new article has been posted with a list of the former locations of the metropolitan police boxes:

http://tardisbuilders.com/index.php?topic=3407

Because you can't reply to an article, as usual this is a companion discussion topic.

Many thanks to Mark and Dave for researching and transcribing this information respectively.

Crispin
 
Metropolitan Police Divisions

In 1829, London was divided up into 17 separate Divisions: A to V (there were no I, O, Q, or U Divisions).  By 1886 this had expanded to 21 by the addition of Divisions J, W, X and Y.  This list is ordered by Division, with each post or box having a Number related to that Division.  Thus Box A51 was controlled by A Division, B11 by B Division, and so on.

Normally this would mean the box/post was sited on that Division's "patch", but presumably a Beat might overlap another Division, and so you'll see instances in the REMARKS column where one box is sited geographically within another Division.

Duplicates and Relocations

Boxes and Posts were occasionally relocated. Sometimes they moved Divisions, and this means they appear twice in the list, with two different numbers (one for each Division).  Other times they were relocated within the same Division, and so we see two entries with the same number, but different location information.  Unfortunately this is rarely recorded with any detail in REMARKS, and in most cases it just says "Resited" with no other explanation.  There are just over a hundred cases of "resited" boxes and posts in the list.

Missing Numbers

You'll notice gaps in the numbering. Divisions A, C, D, E, and G do not start their numbering at 1.

A1-A50 (50 missing)
C1-C60 (60 missing)
D1-D70 (70 missing)
E1-E90 (90 missing)
G1-G10 (10 missing)

In addition there are 11 numbers missing from the middle of P Division:

P35-P45 (11 missing)

Does this mean we're missing 291 boxes?  At first glance it does looks like the list is incomplete.  However this may not be the case.

K Division (Havering) had 14 Air Raid Sirens installed in 1965 (at the height of the Cold War) and they used the same numbering system (K43-K57).  In fact K43 was the number of a recently removed Police Box that was reused for a siren.  So this shows that the numbers were used for objects other than Police Boxes and Posts.  It is likely that this is what the "missing" numbers are.  Since most of the missing ones are at the start, it is tempting to speculate that they might even have been allocated to Police Stations, which were obviously built long before boxes and posts.

In the case of P Division, the numbers jump from P34 at the end of one page to P46 at the top of the next, which at first looks like a missing page.  However the East Dulwich boxes P34 and P46 are in sequence on the list, so it seems unlikely that there are 10 more Dulwich boxes between these on a "missing" page.  If the numbers P35 to P45 were not allocated to Boxes, they wouldn't appear in the Box/Post list, and hence there would be no missing page.

The Numbers Game

There are 771 entries in total.  696 Boxes and 75 Posts.  6 Posts and 102 Boxes are recorded as "Resited".  If most of these 102 appear again on the list (in their "new" location) then that means that the total number of Police Boxes in the Metropolitan Police area was between 600 and 700, which does sound close to the "accepted" figure.  

If the "missing" numbers were taken into account, this would bring the total back up to nearly 1000, and there is no evidence that there were ever that many boxes/posts in London.  I therefore personally think this indicates that this is a complete list of Police Boxes and Posts in London.

-Dave
 
I've flagged the possible missing page with the Archive and as soon as they get back to me, I'll report back.

Mark D
 
Could you ask them about their numbering system, and whether I'm right that they will have used earlier numbers for other types of police "things"?

I notice that none of the 5 "later" division (J, W, X, Y) have any missing numbers.

Dave
 
Hi Mark/Dave,

Would it be possible to have a copy of this wonderful list in Word or Excel format please?
It certainly looks like the rumours of (Met) Police Boxes didn't exist as far out as Slough, Bracknell or High Wycombe after all!  :'(

Thanks,

Pete
 
petewilson said:
Hi Mark/Dave,

Would it be possible to have a copy of this wonderful list in Word or Excel format please?
It certainly looks like the rumours of (Met) Police Boxes didn't exist as far out as Slough, Bracknell or High Wycombe after all!  :'(

Thanks,

Pete
Click to expand...

You can copy and paste it into excel as the table formatting transfers across.
 
I'm struggling to pinpoint T25...
Sunbury Road, north side 15 yards east of Park Road - Hanworth

Theres a sunbury road, but no park road nearby as I can see! (that or I am blind!)

Theres also a number of Park Roads, but no Sunbury Roads intersecting!

Most perplexing!

mark D
 
I've had similar problems Mark. Even using the old 1945 map I have places that seem odd to figure out, let alone find.

Still having trouble tying to share the Google Earth map thing, if you have any suggestions?
 
No idea!
But T39 too is perplexing......

Worple Road, west side 15 yards north of Byfield Road sited in charge room of Isleworth police station (closed) - Isleworth

So, WAS there a Police Box INSIDE a police station? Its listed as a box.....
 
Due to the redevelopment of Docklands, some of the locations are proving near as damnit impossible to pin down.... Connaught Road and Prince Regent Lane near Royal Docks are wildly different these days.... but this one has me stumped

K42 Junction of Lansdowne Road, south side and Sandford Road on forecourt of Canning Town police station (closed) - Canning Town

I live in E16 and Canning Town is not far, so i know the area well... but I can't find that road combination either!

Mark D
 
Just playing around with Google Maps.
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=208425024888313928314.0004bc1271045907731b2&msa=0&ll=51.501049,-0.082397&spn=0.447096,1.352692
Slow progress.

Mark D
 
The map I am working on just got a little boost, as Gavin (from policeboxes.co.uk) just sent me his Police Box Map Icon. Suddently the map is blue and boxy! I'll start to add Box photo's to the pins (in the week) plus any other snippits of information that might be of interest concerning our mighty blue obesliks......
 
With help from Mark, Gavin (at policeboxes.co.uk) the Met List and one of the residents of the Britannia Village Residents Forum (a residents web board here in the fashionable end of East London) I'm now roughly 1/3rd of the way through transposing the Police box list onto a Google Map.  

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=208425024888313928314.0004bc1271045907731b2&msa=0&ll=51.526688,-0.053558&spn=0.443426,1.352692


Its taken me a week to get this far..... I've played around with adding a few pictures and info to a couple of the boxes on there, and in addition to a couple of Mk 3's, theres also the red Blackwall Boxes highlighted too.

Very slow progress but rewarding none the less. I'm checking each and every streetview too, and theres little patterns starting to emerge... particular manhole covers, the positioning of GPO Junction boxes, gaps in walls / fences that work around recesses that are about the right size.

in fact, it got to the point where yesterday I was in Camberwell, and spotted a manhole/GPO box combination and thought "hello!" and today, noted that it was the location of Box L10... i should get out more!

Factoid: The furthest box out from the centre of the map appears to be Box J27, out on the Crooked Mile, near Waltham Abbey... miles out from the M25!

Also, theres a pic out there of a woman and a child sitting by a Box located by some park railings which a lot of people believe is a box in Peckham / Peckham Rye. I don't think it is. I believe it could Box L7, Queens Circus, Battersea. I could be wrong..... i probably am!
Peckham.jpg
But then... theres a few more parks out there and a huge list still to work through, so that may change. But i really don't think its Peckham!

More updates as and when.

Happy Mapping!

Mark D
 
Dalekoracle said:
Also, theres a pic out there of a woman and a child sitting by a Box located by some park railings which a lot of people believe is a box in Peckham / Peckham Rye. I don't think it is. I believe it could Box L7, Queens Circus, Battersea. I could be wrong..... i probably am!
View attachment 44877
But then... theres a few more parks out there and a huge list still to work through, so that may change. But i really don't think its Peckham!
Click to expand...

You may be right. The railings look the same type, and 400 yards would put it about opposite the Chelsea Bridge Hotel and Spa.  I'd call that photo early 60s though, which means things have definitely changed in 50 years.  The lamp-post may have been moved, the pavement's definitely been modernised, and there are no trees this side of the railings any more.  Also, what were they sitting on?  Was that a bus stop?  If so, there isn't one there now.  If that's a GPO box then it might be locatable, because there's one of them in roughly the right place.

You're doing brilliantly by the way, keep up the good work.  Though I agree you do need to get out more...and check out Police Box locations!

A note about dating street photographs. There would have been almost no personal photography during the Second World War, simply because you'd get arrested as a spy for taking photos in the street.  I suspect the few photos we have of boxes dressed up as ARP stations were official ones.  That attitude would probably have lasted a little while into the late 40s and early 50s.  But then I think that the late 50s and early 60s were probably the first time that ordinary people could afford a simple camera, and so a lot of b&w London street photos are probably from that period.  My dad was certainly an avid photographer around 1959-1965.  Unfortunately he preferred the countryside so I have no old police box photos lurking around in any of his collections!

-Dave

 
I thought that the pic showed the woman and child sitting "roadside" by a Box with a park behind. But putting the pic through photoshop and changing the contrast and other settings, theres a lot of buildings and a road BEHIND the box. Indeed, the railings appear to line up to a mid point on the box's side walls..... The entrance is on the OTHER side, facing the road, and this pic was taken from inside a park looking out - would also explain the positioning of the tree. Its IN the park and not in the railings.

Does anyone fancy trawling the photos looking for a similar "box through railings" photo?

Mark D (at work, but thinking blue boxes....)
 
Apologies for the lack of progress with The Police Box Location Map. Work has been getting in the way somewhat of late. Hope to be able to spend some time updating the map in the coming week.
Mark D
 
Hi Mark,

I have to say I have had the same trouble with work interfering with box plotting. I am actually getting a couple of days off this week so I'll hammer time some.
 
Tell me about it! I've had a Matt Smith TARDIS card model sitting on the side waiting for lamp fitting and painting since January. Too much Real Life at present.
 
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