Unless I'm going blind, Mechanoid's post proves Chriskingbees (KB) was right in his belief that the Hartnell box logo didn't have ANY wording on it! Using Mechanoid's image (above) and working the circular logo from the outside inward, I see a thick white circle, then a thin black circle, then another white circle slightly thicker than the black one, and finally a black center with what looks like four white "Starfleet" style arrowheads at the 12, 3, 6, and 9 o'clock positions pointing to and converging at the very center of the circular "logo". It also doesn't look like there's even a hint that lions or unicorns exist in this version.

This is indeed strange. Maybe the "Doctor Who" people wanted the TARDIS to have the St. John logo like a real box would do, but some legal issues with the St. John Ambulance Association prevented the Beeb from using it? So the Beeb threw something simple, yet similar together, and figured with all of the other action going on in the scenes (and with the film/video quality) that no one would notice what was missing on a 5-inch diameter circle stuck on a box in the relative background, and was most likely not going to be seen straight on anyway. And then this "un-noticeability" would be made even more unnoticeable once they dirtied the box up like they did.

I know; with each answer we find we end up with more speculation, and even more questions.

So next question: Who's going to be the first to create this new wordless, animal-less round logo for people to use on their Hartnell boxes? (I know I'll be creating one starting sometime tomorrow!) And can this still be called a "logo"? Or has it been relegated to simply an "emblem"?

Dino

Quote from: mechanoid on May 04, 2010, 08:04 pm


Taken from the pilot episode just before Barbara bursts through the doors.

OK... this one will have to be quick because my meds changed today and I'm more loopy than usual right now. But, here are my first attempts at the "wordless/animal-less" circular emblem on the Hartnell box:


Here is what I called "Version 01". It's based on Mechanoid's image, and because of the quality of images we have to work with (all thanks to the level of technology back in the early 1960s) I've fashioned those "arrowheads" based on the ones from the better images of actual St. John logos.


And here is what I've dubbed "Version 02". Also based on Mechanoid's image, only these "arrowheads" I tooled around with trying to get them to appear as close to those in the image as possible.

I don't know what size they will be when printed, but I can insert them into a Word document and actually size them to the 5-inch diameter of the emblem on Hartnell box.

So I guess this would mean that if one is building a Hartnell box replica, one of the above emblems should be used to for accuracy, and if one is building a Matt Smith box replica, then the "St. John Ambulance" logo should be used. (And of course for those looking for the Cushing box replica, then it would be the logo reading "The St. John Ambulance Association."

One last suggestion I'd like to make before my spell checker goes into full meltdown (it's actually starting to curse at me) is regarding the Hartnell box emblem. (Notice I've started using "emblem" rather than "logo" because there is no real logo on it.) Anyway, since the emblem in question is so void of detail, and at times in certain episodes of the Hartnell stories it does appear to be nought more than a sticker, is it possible that the production crew did in fact just use stickers - possibly even just sticking regular paper versions on the box with tape from behind - and replaced them as necessary (until they either ran out, or got tired of making new ones) every few episodes?

OK! WOW! I just saved my draft of this post and saw how huge those images I posted are. If our moderator/administrator should prefer, please let me know and I will edit this post on the morrow and replace those huge things with reduced-sized images.

Dino.

Don't worry about the image size Dino, and thanks for putting these together!
I've moved this topic into the general reference section, as it's no longer specific to a single box.

Great stuff!

Crispin

D>bleep<N YOU DINO! D>bleep<N D>bleep<N D>bleep<N D>bleep<N !  

Here I got my Original St John Ambulance Association for my TARDIS courtesy of TimeGirl and here you HAD to go investigate this and as a result we discover the Original Hartnell Box had a blank Logo on it.

So now do I redo my Logo to be authentic to my build and have this Nameless >Bleep< on my box?

Or do I keep the one I made and leave it as a Dimensional Rift?  Maybe MY Hartnell box really had the St John Logo on it and your memories of the Logo were erased by the Pandorica Opening? Hmmmmmmm

Anyhow thanks Dino  for everything.

MOD EDIT: Scott, you're getting carried away, ... Family forum....

Aaahh... It's nice to feel loved. <laughing like Renfield> Sorry, though, sort of couldn't help myself, what with everyone getting caught up in extrapolating details, like the angle of the TARDIS roof, depth of panels on various versions of the TARDIS... At least the logo (each one) was one of those details that could be investigated to an end result.

Scott, depending on how your logo is affixed to your Hartnell box, if you can't pop it off and on to switch it out, you could always just temporarily cover it over with a blank logo, using something like a large sticky note since the Hartnell logo looked like a sticker sometimes anyway. (How big do they make sticky notes?) Anyway, this way you can have at least two boxes just by "disguising" the logo: Matt Smith version with the words, slip on the blank logo disguise and you've got the Hartnell version. (Like at 11:30 at night, when you've suddenly realized that you have no milk for breakfast the next morning and you don't want to have to run out in the morning to get it before you can eat; you slip on a set of sweat over your PJs as a disguise because you don't feel like completely changing just to run out to the store, you get home with milk about 15 minutes later... and no one is the wiser <said rubbing hands together maniacally>. Erm... nuff said on that one.)

Anyway, Crispin, I know you said not to worry about the size of the images, but just to keep things in a little more proportion with the other logos posted (visual reference thing), I've replaced those huge things with half-sized versions (as you can see in my edited post), just so things look even. If anyone wants copies of the full-size logos they can PM me, or if there is mass hysteria for them I can always re-edit my post and put the larger images back. (While I may not be flexible when it comes to this sort of thing, I am reasonably pliable.)

Dino.

Quote from: geminitimelord on May 06, 2010, 05:15 pm
MOD EDIT: Scott, you're getting carried away, ... Family forum....

MOD.... <bleep> <bleep> oh and <bleep>!

Quote from: geminitimelord on May 06, 2010, 07:25 pm

Quote from: geminitimelord on May 06, 2010, 05:15 pm
MOD EDIT: Scott, you're getting carried away, ... Family forum....

MOD.... <bleep> <bleep> oh and <bleep>!

He modded your "darns"?

I love this thread, awesome reference material and now I have added bits to add to my Box..thanks for the work guys.

Greetings, All,

I've been looking more into the St. John logos and found something I thought you would find interesting. (I also edited my earlier post where I compared the Cushing Box and Matt Smith Box logos. I had originaly posted it with the images side by side with the details below each, but the images somehow ended up one atop the other, so I adjusted the details to match thus avoiding confusion.)

Anyway, while I was poking around I found an image of a St. John logo like the one Crispin reposted (originally posted by Ironageman) of one that said "St. John Ambulance Brigade." Well, from what I could determine from what I found was that "Brigade" version was used on police boxes in Ireland. So that mystery is (possibly) solved.

Also, I had been thinking about what Rassilonsrod mentioned about the Cushing Box logo looking "lo fi" when it came to the animals, so I did some "Frankensteining" between logos and came up with this:

You'll notice that I left the small grey circles marking the spots where the mounting screws would go. So anyone who is working on a Cushing Box (or just happens to like this logo best), there it is. I wish I had a higher resolution image to offer, but this was the largest "Association" logo I could find.

And just so no one has to hunt through the posts to find everything, and to clear it all up, above is the "hi fi" version of the Cushing Box.

This is the Matt Smith box version:


The Hartnell Box version (arrowheads based on actual logos):


And the Hartnell Box version (arrowheads based on how it looked on screen, at least in the pilot):


Now, as for the Cushing box logo, what I said above is true; what I posted is the largest I've got. I've got larger versions of the Matt Smith and Hartnell box versions. I've even got a Word doc where I've adjusted the logos according to their purported sizes: 5-inch diameter for Hartnell and Matt Smith, 6-inch for Cushing. So if anyone wants a copy just PM me.

Dino.

Here's a grab of the Matt Smith Tardis prop with the St John's Ambulance logo. It does look a little different to the one posted. The type is bigger and there is no outer keyline on the inner black circle.

Quote from: markofrani on May 29, 2010, 07:40 pm
Here's a grab of the Matt Smith Tardis prop with the St John's Ambulance logo. It does look a little different to the one posted. The type is bigger and there is no outer keyline on the inner black circle.

Curses! (Tin) Foiled again!

The lettering is definitely in a different font, and the cross at the bottom seems a little different as well. This logo also doesn't have the screw holes at the 3 and 9 o'clock positions to hold it onto the box, so maybe it really is a sticker rather than a plate?

OK... so it's back to the drawing board to create YET ANOTHER version of the St. John logo. (Geminitimelord, say nothing; this one wasn't my fault!)

Dino.

My understanding is that the St John's badge is painted on the door, so it is neither a decal or a plaque.
Bill "the Doctor" Rudloff

Quote from: DoctorWho8 on May 30, 2010, 05:39 am
My understanding is that the St John's badge is painted on the door, so it is neither a decal or a plaque.
Bill "the Doctor" Rudloff

That's what Purple said.

That's who I got it from.   When there was the big Toys R Us event as Series 5 started, he encountered the TV prop there and saw with his own eyes the badge was painted on the door.  Not sure if it was all painted by hand or with stencils, though.
Bill "the Doctor" Rudloff

OK... so here's the latest in St. John logos - the revised Matt Smith box version going by the screen cap that was graciously provided by markofrani:



I even tried to keep with that "hand painted" look for those of us who would like to use this version, but like me don't have enough of a steady hand to actually paint it on the box (especially when trying to do those animal figures). So you can maybe then use this as a sticker and then give the box a quick satin, semigloss, or which ever protective overcoating is proper and the logo might look like it was hand painted on.

Keep in mind that I've posted the jpeg version because of file size limits. I've also got it in .bmp which looks a little better; it's not any larger physically, just in bytes. So, you know the drill; if anyone would like the larger file just PM me.

Dino.