Yoik!  Just reading an article online and an ad popped up for the vest I really wanted.  I figured it was old data and I'd get "this item is no longer in stock" but they must have got a return or something.  Looks like it's only available in "Small", but I'll give it a shot.  Anyway I'm probably "small" these days.  I've dropped 20# since December, when I started this job.  https://www.josbank.com/classic-collection-tailored-fit-tan-brown-stripe-vest-clearance?CAWELAID=430003740003085536&utm_source=criteo&utm_medium=remarketing&utm_campaign=lf&utm_content=dyn

Analysis, Dino? 

Oh, and I really do plan to turn this into a proper thread with references and more pictures of the individual pieces, etc, but I worked something like 56.47 hours this week in what is ostensibly a part-time job.  So time has been a bit short. 

Well, it's getting closer. The stripes look good. The base fabric is dark, but this could serve well as one of the Doctor's later waistcoats (rarely worn, but still, he had one). The original base fabric was either off-white or pale yellow (depending on how the light hits it), and the solid stripes had a dashed (dotted?) stripe between every other one, so from a distance it looked like the stripes were in sets of 3 (if you know what I mean).

This one has 5 buttons rather than 6, and there is still a pointed bottom front rather than a straight/slightly rounded front. It doesn't have a belted back (for fit adjustment), but the pockets look good. Also this is not bad at all for the price, and is a very suitable "close enough for now" waistcoat.

Considering the uniqueness of the 1st Doctor's main waistcoat, unless you get lucky and find a custom fabric, I would jump on this one. Those custom fabrics can be very expensive - I mean like $60 US per yard.

Dino.

It will be great to see another cosplay thread up and running.
Looking forward to seeing how it develops

Regards

Russell

One of the joys to really researching this kind of thing is, you find out just how hard it is to be "screen accurate."  I mean, all you need is a black/midnight blue shawl collar double breasted lounge coat without a lapel pocket.  How hard could that be?  Basically impossible.  As is the vest.  Interesting thing about the vest is, it has less stripes than anything I've found.  I'm thinking of getting a fat black thread and doing a dashed line along every few stripes.  Although I'm probably too busy to have time for that. 

Even the trousers.  Try to find a high-waisted pleated houndstooth check trouser.  Or a proper midnight blue cravat.  You can't.  It's like you need a time machine or something.

Quote from: Volpone on Jun 25, 2018, 06:58 am
One of the joys to really researching this kind of thing is, you find out just how hard it is to be "screen accurate." I mean, all you need is a black/midnight blue shawl collar double breasted lounge coat without a lapel pocket.  How hard could that be? Basically impossible.

When I was working and starting to put my Classic Doctors' outfits together, I found out the same thing. Basically, all one could find in a black shawl collar for a jacket was a tux, and none were double-breasted. It's one of the reasons I grabbed as many screen caps as possible where there was a really great image of the 1st Doctor's jacket, and using them made some sketches, and passed all that info (with notes) to my seamstress friend. She was able to modify the pattern for a Sack Coat. She did an amazing job of it (I think I posted a few pics somewhere), and while she did give me a break because she's a friend, making costumes is her livelihood so the coat wasn't all that inexpensive: fabric, plus the time she worked on to modify the pattern, then the time she took to put it all together... If I was to try that now that I'm not working, I'd have a dickens of a time trying to get the money together. I'd have to work out a payment plan!

So, impossible to find, but not impossible to have someone make for you if you've got lots of references.

Quote from: Volpone on Jun 25, 2018, 06:58 am
As is the vest. Interesting thing about the vest is, it has less stripes than anything I've found. I'm thinking of getting a fat black thread and doing a dashed line along every few stripes. Although I'm probably too busy to have time for that.

Yeah. This was another sticking point with my outfit. The closest thing I found was a yellow fabric with thin black pinstripes set in rows of three (something like this:   |||    |||    |||). It was no match, but it was the best "close enough for now" that I'd been able to find. (Now, as I mentioned, if you can find one of those costuming forums that offers mass orders of custom fabrics to keep the cost down, the best you can get for the exact fabric is around $60US/yard. Granted most people can get two waistcoats out of one yard, so it's like $30/waistcoat, but you still need the back fabric, buttons, and someone to make the thing for you.)

Again I went to my seamstress with sketches, screen grabs (and notes), and she made the waistcoat for me. Again trying that today I'd need to work out a payment plan, but at least it's not as expensive as the black coat.

Steve, rather than using a black thread for your dotted stripe, I would use a dark red - not burgundy, but a dark red. In some of the rare color publicity photos of Hartnell in his costume, if you get lucky you can see the reddish tint on that dotted stripe between the two solid black ones. The replica fabrics, if you can find a place to get it, also has that dotted stripe in a dark red.

Quote from: Volpone on Jun 25, 2018, 06:58 am
Even the trousers. Try to find a high-waisted pleated houndstooth check trouser.

For these I got off easy. I perused the second-hand shops and found a pair that was larger than my normal size. This gives the trousers that high-waisted look. They may be a slight baggy, but then so were Hartnell's. For mine, since Hartnell's didn't have beltloops, I took the wife's seam-ripper, and very carefully went around and removed the beltloops. The waistcoat hides the braces (suspenders) used to hold them up so clip-on braces will work fine. I've since sewn six buttons on the trousers' waistband to accommodate the button braces (like you see holding up Troughton's): two on the inside of each side on the front, two on the outside of the back, as was the norm for actual Victorian/Edwardian trousers.

Those trousers cost me a whopping $1.50 US, so those second-hand stores can be your friend!

Quote from: Volpone on Jun 25, 2018, 06:58 am
Or a proper midnight blue cravat. You can't.

Just hit up the fabric stores and look for the heavy ribbon. They come in all sizes (widths) and colors. You can find a ribbon in midnight blue in widths from .5 inches to 2 inches (sometimes wider). Just get the size you need for your collar, and cut it to length. Hartnell's neckwear was more of a drooping bow than a cravat, so just get a length of wide ribbon that will let you tie it into a shoelace-style bow where both "ends" and "bows" droop down to around the 2nd waistcoat button (which is a good length since Hartnell, in the early episodes, occasionally had his tie tucked inside the waistcoat).

The ribbon I use is 1 inch wide, which works for the shirt I've got (plain tux shirt with wingtip collar). If you want to be screen accurate, you can get a band collar shirt and make the removable wingtip collar like Hartnell had (as seen in Ep 2 of 'The Daleks' when Barbara loosens the collar on the ailing Doctor). For a collar like that a 1.5-inch wide ribbon would work well since those collars were taller.

Quote from: Volpone on Jun 25, 2018, 06:58 am
It's like you need a time machine or something.

Maybe not a time machine (though we all seem to be trying to build one), but just some ingenuity, and occasionally a friend that knows how to sew and modify patterns. It takes some doing, but it can be done. The level of screen accuracy you want to achieve is always up to the individual (like my waistcoat is fine for me for the time being - not fine for those "Stitch Nazis", but we're not out to impress them ), so go to the level that you like, and fits your wallet's size.

Again things were much easier while I was working. Since being put out of commission, I've been hunting for what bargains I can find and it's really brought my costuming to a crawl. It's limited me to replacement jumpers for my 9th Doctor, and $38-dollar tweeds on eBay for my 11th, with most of my 11th Doctor "close enough" shirts coming from Macy's on-line sales where you can pick one up for less than $20 US if you're lucky.

I hope this is helpful, and breathes more hope into your endeavours.

Dino.

OK.  I really should turn this into a proper post.  Although I hit a roadblock almost as soon as I decided that.  So first some stalling.  The First Doctor's costume:  An analysis without any reference:  

The Doctor, from bottom to top, has footwear, trousers, a waistcoat, (probably suspenders/braces, although I don't think we ever see them--same goes for socks and underpants), a shirt, a tie, and a coat.  Add in a monocle, TARDIS key, spectacles, handkerchief (in later episodes), and sometimes a cap and boat cloak.  

I'd planned to start with the shoes.  It's hard to see the shoes.  The prevalence of cosplay sites argue that he wears "gored" boots.  If you're old enough to remember Alan Moore's "The Watchmen," it's the boot everyone wears in that--above the ankle with elastic on each side.  The provenance on this is, IIRC, the scene from the Mechanoid cave in "The Chase", where everyone goes to sleep for a bit.  But damned if I can find a photo.  Alternatives would be a "Beatle" boot, a side-zip boot, and something along the lines of what Matt Smith and Peter Capaldi wear, a lace-up boot [which isn't that dissimilar from Patrick Troughton's boots--I've heard them referred to as "pixie boots".   If anyone has a relevant screencap, please, by all means share.  But for now I'll say how I went.  As much as I love the aesthetic of the gored boot, it isn't practical to my needs.  I buy footwear in the context of riding on a motorcycle.  And an above-the ankle boot loses all value if the most important part--the part the slides along the pavement--the ankle--has flimsy elastic fabric over it instead of protective leather.  So I went with the most stylish Doc Marten's I could find.  Unfortunately, Doc Marten's aren't as sturdy as the brand reputation would have you think and the famous Air Ware soles came apart after a couple years of dog walking.  Not to be perturbed, I cut the remains off and had a local cobbler resole them.  Unfortunately he added a more rugged sole than I'd hoped for, but such is life.  If I really don't like it, I guess I can get the bike out and run a couple miles, dragging the soles on the pavement until I sand them down.  

Here's the best shot I have of the Hartnell boots (and it is terrible):  

And here are my boots (before resoling):

Next up (I guess--unless someone can find some decent Hartnell shoe screencaps): Trousers!  [And my boot photo is foreshadowing of one of my trouser options.]

[THE RING!  HOW COULD I FORGET THE RING!?  Gotta mention that too.]

Hoping this thread is going to become a thing 

Loving the super relaxed picture of your boots! 

Keep up the good work!


Russell

(I've been a bit sidetracked with my 4th Dr thread for a while- real life getting in the way- , but hope to get back into it soon!)

Well, after fixing a bunch of things on that post, I can see that, while the resolution on that screengrab is terrible, Hartnell's boots are significantly dressier than mine. 

Nice cosplay, here's mine I put together a few years back

Hurm. Perception is a funny thing.  What's the "assume" quote?  "You make an 'ass' of 'u' and 'me'?  Somehow I got it in my head that Hartnell's trousers were pleated.  It never occurred to me they might be flat-fronted.  But it appears they may be.  Which is fine, because I've had a devil of a time finding pleated checked trousers with an appropriate pattern in the USA.  But there are some flat front options out there. 

He wore button boots for the most part which can be found on eBay

A couple things--although I haven't gotten around to substantively updating this. 

1) I was so set on the concept that Hartnell wore pleated trousers that it never occurred to me that he wore flat-front trousers--as it would seem.  If this is the case, Historical Emporium has a checked trouser that, while not perfect, is better than anything I have now. 

But more importantly, the jacket.  I've always joked that pirate costumes were an excuse for men to heterosexually cross-dress--big tall boots, tight pants.  Velvet jackets and frilly shirts with poofy sleeves.  Hats with feathers in them.  Lots of jewelry.  You get the idea. 

It would appear that Dr. Who is a similar vein.  The First Doctor jacket is infernally vexing.  It appears to be an early dinner jacket, before the form was solidified.  Double breasted.  With a shawl collar.  But no breast pocket.  "Lounge suit" length (as opposed to a frock coat or morning dress). That doesn't exist. 

Except watching "Jeopardy!" tonight, the defending champ was a woman who wore a black shawl collar double breasted jacket with no breast pocket.  Get on Google and sure enough, if you can find something where the measurements work, there are plenty of black shawl collar jackets with no breast pocket if you look for women's clothes.  And since the jacket is designed to never be buttoned, the fact that the button holes are on the wrong side are rendered a moot point. 

The plot thicks. 

My version of it