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The Pale Green Console and Set

Started by tony farrell, Dec 07, 2012, 06:41 pm

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tony farrell

Thanks Bill.

However by this stage in the Tardis' history, we have a brand new (or at least heavily re-furbished) console. In addition, the walls were eight years old and had themselves been refitted twice (three times if you include the ad hoc replacement of some of the 'bucket' roundel mouldings; four times if you include the silver discs fitted for the Master's Tardis in 'Colony in Space').

In addition gloss and satin (eggshell) paints in the 1960s and 1970s were oil based. After eight years under hot, bright, studio lights or in storage, oil-based paints would have 'yellowed' to the extent the walls original colour would have been lost.

Then, we have the additional problem with Claws, Colony and Peladon in that the current versions of these stories have been subjected to a colour recovery process which involves 'overlaying' colour from the American tapes onto black and white 'off-screen' filmed recordings.

Celation asserts that the walls were off-white to avoid glare (flare) from the studio lighting. This is a fair point unless a gloss or satin finish is applied and then you would get that 'flaring' effect - have a look at "The Brink of Destruction" or the final scene from The Daleks; glare from the studio lights is readily apparent on the console's control panels. This implies the use of (at least) a satin or sheen finish paint. If it's a satin finish, then, in the 1960s, the paint must be oil based. 

In any case the use of an off-white paint doesn't, in itself, contradict Carole Ann Ford's statement that the walls were a very pale green. Why can't off-white still contain an element of green in it? The term off-white in itself doesn't actually mean that much - after all, cream is a mixture of white, yellow, a bit of brown (and, possibly, a bit of black).

One final point. There is a photo - which, frustratingly, I can't find at the moment (from Power of the Daleks) - showing Patrick Troughton's newly regenerated Doctor getting up from the floor of the Tardis. He is underneath the console at this point and it can be seen that the console's plinth appears green but the panels appear white. Yet, we know the console was all one colour - a kind of creamy, greeny off-white.

Regards

Tony

markofrani

Hi Tony, Is this the picture you're after?
pod.jpg

tony farrell

Thanks Jonathan.

I'm not sure this is the one I had in mind, but it does illustrate my point: The green of the plinth (because it is shaded by the console's 'table top') appears darker - almost a moss green - when compared to the green in the control panels which (to my eye) has a slightly blue green hue.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that lighting conditions can plainly alter the perceived colour of an object. I stand by my view that there is nothing contradictory about calling a colour 'off-white' (or television white) and it still having a green 'element' to it.

Regards

Tony

Rassilons Rod

Also by the time of Death To The Daleks they look rather brown.

There are colour photos of the walls from "Mind Robber". They look very white then too, but they could have been repainted by that point too.
In the cities in the streets there's a tension you can feel,
The breaking strain is fast approaching, guns and riots.
Politicians gamble and lie to save their skins,
And the press get fed the scapegoats,
Public Enema Number One.

galacticprobe

Dec 09, 2012, 03:41 pm #19 Last Edit: Dec 09, 2012, 03:41 pm by galacticprobe
The above photo is an odd one. The floor looks yellowish (French vanilla colored?), even in the shadowy areas; that odd edge of the console that's a different color from all the others looks "creamy" colored (exceedingly pale tan); that flat "spacer" in the background where the two sections of the walls join together - aside from the dirt smudges - looks to be about the same color as the console's panel, or very close to it. (Forget using those walls as any reference; they're B&W photo enlargements of what looks like those perforated metal sheets and have no color at all to them.)

But if that spacer on the wall is the same color as that of the console panels, as it looks in this photo, then it would be reasonable to believe that the actual walls (not the photo blow-ups) were the same color as the spacers. It would also corroborate Carol Ann Ford's statement on the walls' color being a pale green. (Wouldn't it?)

Dino.
"What's wrong with being childish?! I like being childish." -3rd Doctor, "Terror of the Autons"

DoctorWho8

Quote from: Tony Farrell on Dec 09, 2012, 08:16 am
Then, we have the additional problem with Claws, Colony and Peladon in that the current versions of these stories have been subjected to a colour recovery process which involves 'overlaying' colour from the American tapes onto black and white 'off-screen' filmed recordings.


Actually that's not quite correct.  The colored episodes have existed, but a couple in Claws of Axos had to be converted back from NTSC to PAL, but as far as I know all the other episodes in those 3 stories they still had PAL tapes for.  It was Silurians, Ambassadors of Death, Terror of the Autons, parts of Mind of Evil, and partials of part 1 of Invasion of the Dinosaurs that had the color restoration done.
Bill "the Doctor" Rudloff

tony farrell

Thanks for the correction Bill.

According to the Restoration Team's website, you are correct; Peladon was converted back from the American 525 line standard to the PAL system. They do not specify the restoration process for Colony. As regards Claws, the following is from their website: "Instead of using RSC (reverse standard conversion) directly we would (combine) luminance from the monochrome film recording with colour from the RSC process."

The point I was trying to make was that the colour is not original but either converted from a different system or 'mapped' onto a black and white picture from another source. Either way, with the best will in the world, it cannot be regarded as totally 'true'!

Regards

Tony

Rassilons Rod

Dec 09, 2012, 07:20 pm #22 Last Edit: Dec 09, 2012, 07:31 pm by rassilonsrod
I can't categorically state that the rim was *originally* white (or off white) but certainly it stayed that way...
(Certainly till Inferno)

d2-2u-013.jpg

d3-3d-c116.jpg

This one might suggest that the white was a repair job (but to more sides than just one).
d3-3d-034.jpg
In the cities in the streets there's a tension you can feel,
The breaking strain is fast approaching, guns and riots.
Politicians gamble and lie to save their skins,
And the press get fed the scapegoats,
Public Enema Number One.

fivefingeredstyre

Dec 09, 2012, 08:21 pm #23 Last Edit: Dec 09, 2012, 08:23 pm by fivefingeredstyre
Just taken a look at the last time the particular panel panel with the odd edge was shown on screen.

PDVD_009.jpg

looks to me like it was repainted by the time Ambassadors came to be filmed...

I hate the fact that you can clearly see how dilapidated the prop is in this story and in Inferno. It's far an away my favourite version of the console...

galacticprobe

Dec 10, 2012, 12:13 am #24 Last Edit: Dec 10, 2012, 12:14 am by galacticprobe
The console did undergo a minor refurb after "Inferno", so there exists the possibility that a repaint was part of that refurb. Whether or not they used the same pale green as was originally on the console is a good question, especially since the refurb took place seven or so years after the console was built. (Did they have the same pale green to use? Was that color available? Did they have to mix their own paints to get as close to the original color as possible? Or did they just mix what the props guru thought was a nice pale green?)

Dino.
"What's wrong with being childish?! I like being childish." -3rd Doctor, "Terror of the Autons"

tony farrell

Quote from: rassilonsrod on Dec 10, 2012, 02:02 pm
I think that wasn't necessarily a "repair", Tony. That was actually part of the story because the Doctor was storing something in there... Was it the housing for the Dematerialisation circuit? Not sure at the moment.

It was later used to house the weird gun like thing (time sensor?) that was in The Time Monster (the handle sat in the hole).


Actually Marc, it wasn't me that suggested the 'repair'; that was Jonathan! As far as I know, you're both correct - there was indeed a hole punched in the re-furbished console. This was then disguised by the 'housing' for the de-materialisation circuit.

Back slightly more 'on-topic', it's interesting to note that the left hand door looks a lot greyer than the rest of the walls which look by this stage to be a 'muddy' cream. A trick of the light? Problems with the colour restoration? You can certainly tell that the walls were 'showing their age' by this stage of their history.

Marc, when you get round to your renders, it might be an idea to colour the 'original' Tardis set in the colours that have been suggested (i.e., a very pale green for the walls, scanner/TV box and down-lighter assembly. Also, including Dino's discovery that the separating upright strips in the photographic walls were also this colour (see my other thread for details of how the photographic walls were assembled)).

I think if we look at the photographic evidence for things like the Perspex dividing screens - glare where the sections of their frames are joined suggests the weld lines are visible - we can see these were bare metal or, at least sprayed a satin silver finish.

So, at the moment, I think the Tardis was conceived as being a very pale green (the console may have been just fractionally darker but there is no real reason for this to have been the case), with silver detailing and 'gun-metal' grey photographic walls with the pale green dividers. In my mind's eye, this is a pleasing concept.

If you could do this, I think that this would be a good way for people to judge for themselves.

Thanks

Tony

cobalt

Quote from: Tony Farrell on Dec 10, 2012, 03:41 pm
Also, including Dino's discovery that the separating upright strips in the photographic walls were also this colour


Can you point me to this part of the discussion? I seem to have missed it.

tony farrell

Yes, no worries - see page two of this thread http://tardisbuilders.com/index.php?topic=4139.msg47797#msg47797

I think I've posted the link correctly

Tony

Rassilons Rod

Again easy enough to do.

Here for your, and everyone elses, perusal is the render with 4 different greens on it. :)


2012-12-11-4-FaultLocator.jpeg
In the cities in the streets there's a tension you can feel,
The breaking strain is fast approaching, guns and riots.
Politicians gamble and lie to save their skins,
And the press get fed the scapegoats,
Public Enema Number One.

tony farrell

Hi Marc - which colour did you use in this version of the console you did?

Have a look at the colour snaps of Patrick Troughton earlier in this thread. This pale green - as Dino pointed out - is the same as in the uprights dividing the photographic walls. 

2012-12-04-1-Console_to_corner.jpeg