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Season 20 5 Doctors console plans

Started by Scarfwearer, Aug 22, 2009, 11:50 am

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lespaceplie

It's coming up. The basic drawing is pretty much done, but there are so many dims to label! And buttons. The rotor will be getting a document of its own.

galacticprobe

Feb 06, 2015, 06:45 pm #31 Last Edit: Feb 06, 2015, 06:46 pm by galacticprobe
Nice work, lespaceplie! Are you thinking of doing this with all of the basic consoles (not all revisions, but the consoles when they first appeared: original Brachacki, the Season 15 console)? And I would love to see you do this with the Season 14 little wooden console.

Just curious because you seem to be getting all of the proportions of the "Five Doctors" console so perfect.

Dino.
"What's wrong with being childish?! I like being childish." -3rd Doctor, "Terror of the Autons"

lespaceplie

The plan is definitely to make a complete set of all major classic series consoles (and police boxes for that matter). Tony has already done an excellent job with the Brachacki, but I will include an abbreviated version of it in the simple style of my own plans just to complete the set.

S14 is a pickle. I'm not at all convinced by the plans that are in the forum right now, but I haven't nailed them either. The way the lower panels adjoin the plinth is very clunky and ambiguous in the reference materials on hand.

galacticprobe

Feb 07, 2015, 05:19 pm #33 Last Edit: Feb 07, 2015, 05:23 pm by galacticprobe
Quote from: lespaceplie on Feb 06, 2015, 07:31 pm
The plan is definitely to make a complete set of all major classic series consoles (and police boxes for that matter).

Well, if your dims for those other consoles are as accurate as you're making them for this console, then we'll certainly have one great central source for superb references!

Quote from: lespaceplie on Feb 06, 2015, 07:31 pm
Tony has already done an excellent job with the Brachacki, but I will include an abbreviated version of it in the simple style of my own plans just to complete the set.

Tony's drawings for the original Brachacki are magnificent! The research he's put into making them went above and beyond. Not to mention that he got quite a few measurements from Chris (celation) who I think researched this console eight ways to Sunday for his replica! I was just wondering if you were planning to make a "skeletal" (i.e. plain line drawing) of the Brachacki for the dims as I thought you might ask Tony if he would let you use his drawings for your detailed set.

Quote from: lespaceplie on Feb 06, 2015, 07:31 pm
S14 is a pickle. I'm not at all convinced by the plans that are in the forum right now, but I haven't nailed them either. The way the lower panels adjoin the plinth is very clunky and ambiguous in the reference materials on hand.

That little console is a difficult one, I agree. She's also the favorite of many fans (myself included; she's tied for the #2 spot on my list with the 1996 TVM Console: the Brachacki and the 2005 console tying for the #1 spot). I thought scarfwearer did a wonderful job on his replica. I also thought his measurements were pretty spot on until you pointed out a few of the inaccuracies, which of course makes the other measurements inaccurate. That's why I was asking if you'd planned to tackle this little cutie. I don't know how accurate my estimate of her height is, judging from her top with Tom Baker standing next to her, but I thought she was about 40 inches tall - bottom of the feet to the top of the main console, not counting the disc on the top or the railing. (I'm probably wrong, but as you say, she's a pickle!)

Dino.
"What's wrong with being childish?! I like being childish." -3rd Doctor, "Terror of the Autons"

omarvance

Did you finish creating the new PDF with updated dimensions?

tony farrell

Dec 13, 2015, 10:58 am #35 Last Edit: Dec 13, 2015, 12:10 pm by Tony Farrell
Quote from: galacticprobe on Feb 07, 2015, 05:19 pm

Tony's drawings for the original Brachacki are magnificent! The research he's put into making them went above and beyond. Not to mention that he got quite a few measurements from Chris (celation) who I think researched this console eight ways to Sunday for his replica! I was just wondering if you were planning to make a "skeletal" (i.e. plain line drawing) of the Brachacki for the dims as I thought you might ask Tony if he would let you use his drawings for your detailed set.


The only dimensions I got from Chris were for the controls on panel 6 - see http://tardisbuilders.com/index.php?topic=5884.msg70164#msg70164 (and even here, I ignored the ones for the grille (because the grille wasn't how the original was first seen) and I also 'tweaked' the dimensions of the main and secondary levers).

In addition, Chris' console is slightly bigger; I make the original 84 inches (opposite point to opposite point on the hexagon) whereas Chris makes this dimension nearer 86 inches.

It's a bit like the analogy of 'baking a cake' where you told to either use imperial weights and measures or metric ones. Both will give you entirely acceptable results but the results are not the same!

However, if Lespaceplie wants to use any or all of my dimensions, he is most welcome.

Quote from: lespaceplie on Feb 06, 2015, 07:31 pm
S14 is a pickle. I'm not at all convinced by the plans that are in the forum right now, but I haven't nailed them either. The way the lower panels adjoin the plinth is very clunky and ambiguous in the reference materials on hand.


Nathan - warmcanofcoke - is doing a stirling build of this beauty. He's probably in the best position to comment on this.

As for the dimensions for the Pertwee/Baker/Davison Console as currently stated in Scarfwearer's thread, I think these too are incorrect - the main 'problems' in my view being the diameter of the central column (I make this 22 inches) and 'the fascia' which I think is much nearer 3.5 inches rather than the 3 inches stated. Together, these two discrepancies are, in my view, 'throwing' the angles and lengths of the control panels off true.

I've had several requests to look at "The Three Doctors" Tardis set and to create plans for this. I suppose I could look at this version of the Console at the same time.......

However, this will have to wait as - next on my agenda - is to revisit the "Nothing At The End Of The Lane" article. I'm aware that numerous members of TB have bought this magazine and I think it is important to point out the differences in our conclusions and why I disagree with much of what "Nothing At The End Of The Lane" states.

T

lespaceplie

It's time to get back to working this one out. Rather than Imperial units or an unholy mix, I'm pretty sure this one is metric all the way (centimeters in the drawing). I took the panel angles from the photo of the studio plans for this console and believe they made it into the final prop. This is why the rise of the upper and lower panels are not nice rounded numbers.

The string of hexagons trim on the belt is not included in the overall width. Those little hexes were key in determining the width of the panels. The hexes themselves are 7 cm high, but the panels edges extend slightly above and below.

kelt_dims1.jpg

galacticprobe

Dec 15, 2015, 02:14 am #37 Last Edit: Dec 15, 2015, 02:15 am by galacticprobe
Quote from: Tony Farrell on Dec 13, 2015, 10:58 am
The only dimensions I got from Chris were for the controls on panel 6 - see http://tardisbuilders.com/index.php?topic=5884.msg70164#msg70164 (and even here, I ignored the ones for the grille (because the grille wasn't how the original was first seen) and I also 'tweaked' the dimensions of the main and secondary levers).


Sorry, Tony; my mistake - or make that my misinterpretation. I knew Chris gave you the dimensions for Panel 6 as you mention. In my mind I took the number of controls on Panel 6 as individual items (i.e. that row of Secondary Levers were "five" levers, rather than one lever's measurements being the same as the other four, etc.), and I misconstrued that in my comments as "quite a few measurements" once all of the controls were taken into account.

Next time I'll make sure my comments reflect fact rather than interpretation. This way I'm not giving anyone false hopes or ideas (which wasn't my intention, nor is it ever).

Dino.
"What's wrong with being childish?! I like being childish." -3rd Doctor, "Terror of the Autons"

tony farrell

May 18, 2016, 10:04 am #38 Last Edit: May 19, 2016, 08:32 pm by Tony Farrell
Quote from: lespaceplie on Dec 14, 2015, 03:10 pm
It's time to get back to working this one out.
kelt_dims1.jpg


As some of you might be aware, I'm currently working on the dimensions of the Kenneth Sharp Console (the version of the Console which immediately preceded the Kelt iteration being discussed here).

Firstly, let me say I've no intention of 'treading on Lespaceplie's toes' on this one and I offer this purely to help and - indeed - to ask a question. Below, I've added the equivalent dimensions of the Sharp Console to Lespaceplie's excellent diagram:

kelt_dims1.jpg

With the single exception of the Console's width (232 cms v 234 cms), all the equivalent dimensions are within millimeters of each other.

This brings me to my question - Lespaceplie, how positive are you that your stated width is correct?

If 234 cms is correct (as opposed to the 232 cms on your plans), then it would appear that Mike Kelt directly copied the proportions of the Sharp Console over into his version. (I've added the silhouette of the Sharp Console in red and this has been drawn to the same scale as Lespaceplie's diagram.)

As I say Lespaceplie, I am not saying you are incorrect - I am simply pointing out the otherwise uncannily similar dimensions.

(edited to correct typo)

T

Rassilons Rod

The panels certainly seemed to fit rather well in The Two Doctors (Plinth issues notwithstanding).
In the cities in the streets there's a tension you can feel,
The breaking strain is fast approaching, guns and riots.
Politicians gamble and lie to save their skins,
And the press get fed the scapegoats,
Public Enema Number One.

tony farrell

May 18, 2016, 11:56 am #40 Last Edit: May 19, 2016, 08:33 pm by Tony Farrell
Ah, good point Marc - it's my understanding that, for The Two Doctors, what remained of the Sharp Console (panels, collar and what was by then called the Time Rotor) was mounted on the Kelt Console's supporting framework. If correct, that would tend to support the figure of 234 cms rather than 232 cms as the width of the Kelt Console!

As I say, I'm simply throwing my question about the width 'into the mix'. I am not saying Lespaceplie is incorrect.

T

Rassilons Rod

Exactly my understanding too :)
In the cities in the streets there's a tension you can feel,
The breaking strain is fast approaching, guns and riots.
Politicians gamble and lie to save their skins,
And the press get fed the scapegoats,
Public Enema Number One.

lespaceplie

I can't make any particular claim to accuracy, but what I came up with is based on some of the labelled dims and angles on the original plan snippets that we have. Of course, things deviate in actual construction. Still, the metric dims of the panel details in my version ended up being awfully clean numbers. Generally, the upper panels appear to have a greater slope than the Sharp console. That implies it's either taller (from the belt up) or smaller in diameter or both.

Another key is the proportion of the hexagons on the belt. If that part really is 7 cm (not including how far the panels stick above and below) and the hexagon intervals are simple dims, then I'm thinking I got it right.

The Two Doctors temporary classic console looks oddly tall. Rather than that suggesting the panels are the same size, the larger Sharp panels simply covered the belt on the Kelt. The crown was also a new fabrication.

tony farrell

May 19, 2016, 09:25 pm #43 Last Edit: May 19, 2016, 09:40 pm by Tony Farrell
I think I've probably slightly confused matters with a typo in my previous post - I should have written 234 centimeters and not 244 centimeters. (I've modified my post to correct this.) Apologies for this!

Quote from: lespaceplie on May 19, 2016, 03:37 pm
Another key is the proportion of the hexagons on the belt. If that part really is 7 cm (not including how far the panels stick above and below) and the hexagon intervals are simple dims, then I'm thinking I got it right.


Given we're only talking a couple of centimeters difference in the panels' widths between us, I wonder if Lespaceplie has considered the following: If an equilateral hexagon (i.e., equal sides and all internal angles of 120 degrees) is 7 centimeters tall, then the length of each side would be 4.04 centimeters. However, looking at this screen grab, the top and bottom edges of each 'hexagon' would appear to be very slightly wider at nearer 4.14 centimeters (i.e., approximately a 1 mm difference):

0007A.jpg

(The picture has been reproduced at 21 pixels per centimeter.)

And in close-up:

0007A.png

If this approx 1 mm difference were to be multiplied by the number of 'hexagons' along the length of the fascias, then, across the entire width of the Console, we would end up with a two centimeter difference i.e., this would account for the difference in our estimates of the dimensions!

Quote from: lespaceplie on May 19, 2016, 03:37 pm
The Two Doctors temporary classic console looks oddly tall. Rather than that suggesting the panels are the same size, the larger Sharp panels simply covered the belt on the Kelt.


Ah, here I do disagree:

5drs13.jpg

If you look at this photo, it can be seen that the Kelt 'hexagonal' fascia is held in place by three brackets per side. It would have been a simple task to unscrew the fascia and replace it with the 'traditional' straight-edged fascia characteristic of the earlier console. And, in any case, the straight-edged fascia would have to have been attached to the framework underneath - otherwise the original panels (temporarily fitted to the Kelt framework) would simply slide off!

I've written to Mike Kelt to ask for clarification, If I get a reply, I'll let you know.

T

Rassilons Rod

May 22, 2016, 10:34 pm #44 Last Edit: May 22, 2016, 10:42 pm by rassilonsrod
As we were discussing how well (or not) the sharp panels (such as they were by this stage) fitted the Kelt console... Here are some grabs from that episode.

I think there was a lot more going on than just a new crown. The edging looks brand new (in front of the hex belt or replacing?) And also some new dividing strips between the panels. And of course the rather large plinth pieces covering the pyramidal base of the console support structure.

I noticed also, that the supports for the Kelt underpanels are not visible. I wonder how easy it would have been to dismantle that, I was suspecting that it was welded together until Tony's suggestion that the belt could be unscrewed. But as I said, I do wonder if the new belt/ fascia was in front or not. Or perhaps the Kelt frame wasn't underneath after all? Perhaps we won't know until we have figured out more measurements?

Anyway, food for thought :)

vlcsnap-2016-05-22-23h28m27s781.png

vlcsnap-2016-05-22-23h28m36s546.png

vlcsnap-2016-05-22-23h28m45s531.png

vlcsnap-2016-05-22-23h28m59s031.png

vlcsnap-2016-05-22-23h29m14s250.png

vlcsnap-2016-05-22-23h29m24s187.png

vlcsnap-2016-05-22-23h29m41s718.png

vlcsnap-2016-05-22-23h29m56s500.png

vlcsnap-2016-05-22-23h30m15s750.png

vlcsnap-2016-05-22-23h30m50s078.png

vlcsnap-2016-05-22-23h31m11s593.png
In the cities in the streets there's a tension you can feel,
The breaking strain is fast approaching, guns and riots.
Politicians gamble and lie to save their skins,
And the press get fed the scapegoats,
Public Enema Number One.