Hartnell Central Column help...

[handofomega]

That is what I thought too, at first.   Like I said you actually have to sequence the images up to see what I mean.   It isn't actually on the rubber matting, or whatever it is.    When the image moves the pattern moves right to left along with the inner workings.   Onto, the left side which was previously without the pattern.   Like I said you have to view them in sequence cap 334, 336-347 one frame at a time like a film strip.   It becomes very clear when you do. 

[purpleblancmange]

If anyone has the book "The Key to Time" (not the novel of the adventure by the same name) there is on one of the colour pages a huge close up of the column that shows the mesh very clearly.  The picture is actually from Inferno, by the way.

As my scanner doesn't play ball, I'm not sure whether I'd be able to pin it up here - just thought I'd give everyone a heads up on this. 

EDIT:  A heads up on the picture, not my non working scanner.

[Rassilons Rod]

You've done some really great renders here Marc, so good on you with that - I look forward to seeing what further images you'll come up with.

Now, here's the thing... I had always thought that this console had been destroyed as that's what I'd been told by Ian Scoones of the Visual Effects department.  However, last night I was told that in some circles it's believed that this console still exists in some form or other - supposedly it's in a right old state.

I'm not sure what to make of this, it's possible I guess - but there seems to be a lot of secrecy, which happens a lot in collecting circles. Does it still exist?  Is it just wishful thinking?  Sounds like a conspiracy theory to me... oh no, it's the search for the Holy Grail all over again.

I'll do some delving... looks like I'll have to speak with the fabled Priory of Kasterborous and the TARDIS Masons. 

I missed this post yesterday! D'oh!

Thanks for your comments on the renders

Re: The console... are you referring to the body or to the topic in hand? If you mean the console, wasn't it the same body that was used right up to the The Kings Demons (and again in the Two Doctors) but with different panels on?

Or... are you saying that they may have made an entirely new one?

Or... are you saying that the panels might exist somewhere?

I'm confused.... still a bit bunged up but starting to feel better

If anyone has the book "The Key to Time" (not the novel of the adventure by the same name) there is on one of the colour pages a huge close up of the column that shows the mesh very clearly.  The picture is actually from Inferno, by the way.

As my scanner doesn't play ball, I'm not sure whether I'd be able to pin it up here - just thought I'd give everyone a heads up on this. 

EDIT:  A heads up on the picture, not my non working scanner.

Are you talking about the leather bound volume much like the one called "the early years" that has the 1980 logo embossed on the front and came in a hard slipcase? ...I wish I had that :S


-Marc

[Rassilons Rod]

I found in the book "The Doctor Who File" a potentially good B/W photo of the prop as used in Inferno (on page 115). Though its not terribly good quality... (Don't have a scanner I'm afraid)

I think I'll pop Inferno on and have a look at it

-Marc

[purpleblancmange]

In terms of the Hartnell console, I was talking about the entire object - after Inferno, it was rebuilt a number of times with the passing seasons.  Basically the prop builders took the old parts of the console, drew around them and created new props from these templates.

What I was told the other day was that the entire console itself exists, but is in a state of complete knackerment (made up word, but effective).  Personally, I can't help but think that this is wishful thinking, though I'm prepared to be proven wrong.

The Key To Time book, I just have the bog standard paper back edition.  Though there are a couple of decent shots of the Hartnell console in there, a couple in colour and a couple in black and white.

[Rassilons Rod]

In terms of the Hartnell console, I was talking about the entire object - after Inferno, it was rebuilt a number of times with the passing seasons.  Basically the prop builders took the old parts of the console, drew around them and created new props from these templates.

What I was told the other day was that the entire console itself exists, but is in a state of complete knackerment (made up word, but effective).  Personally, I can't help but think that this is wishful thinking, though I'm prepared to be proven wrong.

The Key To Time book, I just have the bog standard paper back edition.  Though there are a couple of decent shots of the Hartnell console in there, a couple in colour and a couple in black and white.

Oooh sounds interesting. I wonder (if true) if that would include the time column... perhaps even more wishful in my thining there...

I nearly bought the leather bound one from Ebay a few years ago, I wish I had now!

[Rassilons Rod]

I just watched Inferno

Some points of note...
-One of the flags is missing

-Upper support ring of central ladder section broken in one place and causes the whole inner structure to sag, one of the support rods can be seen wobbling whilst he uses the console.

-Ladder  structure appears to be completely missing in some scenes though that maybe just the angle

-It seems that the whole rotating part isn't fixed in properly anymore, it bounces around a lot when the column goes up and down. Its clearer to see the ladder structure this time. but the whole thing is hanging at an angle. It does look like there's rubber stuck between the ladder struts. (It certainly doesn't rotate anymore)

-Dumbells missing, half ladder missing

If anyone who has the DVD fancies making some screengrabs, its clearest in episode 5 and 6 just before he a) returns to his own universe and b) before he goes to the local tip.

I don't think it appears in any of the previous 3 stories does it? I might have a look at the end of War Games...

-Marc

[Rassilons Rod]

Hi guys,
I've just been pouring through what I have on DVD and I found that the best caps of all seem to be from the Missing years. Specifically Tenth Planet (believe it or not... 8mm??? and The Web of Fear...

I'm wondering if a) the ladder section changed at all due to the pieces moving/breaking b) it just looks odd in different perspectives... but I have found a number of shots that seem to confirm this arrangement.



I think that with it being black and white, and how light and dark can really bleach out or black out detail, this is the problem we're dealing with... But I think this could be as close as we'll get...

Here are some of my reference captures that I took today... (click for larger)

  The Aztecs Dalek Invasion Of Earth

The Tenth Planet   The Tenth Planet

The Web Of Fear Mind Robber



The only one that might confuse things a bit is this one from The Tomb of The Cybermen - Is it possible they are connected by something clear?


-Marc

[Scarfwearer]

I think you're right Marc, the black parts do appear to be flat 'paddles'. The curves I saw have to be tricks of the lighting/camera - or my imagination .

HandOfOmega - It's pretty clearly a separate mesh as you say, so I'll need to figure out how to draw it. I think I need to download the rest of the those images and follow your suggestion about animating them.

Alas I'm likely to be tied up all week with other stuff.

Crispin

[Rassilons Rod]

I'm cracking on with this today...  some more renders later today

-Marc

[Rassilons Rod]

Today's renders... I may do some more in a bit, but all thats left (apart from whatever tweaking is necessary) is the base, the basket and the plastic cover...

I fixed the lights on the static part so they look a bit more like lights, and added the rulers (or at least how I see them at the moment... All things subject to change, and annoying lighting illusions!)

Click for larger...


-Marc

[handofomega]

WOW those are very impressive rassilonsrod   

Those three wide strips across from the ladder structure are where the wire mesh would go.   

From what has been said in various media about the central column in the Hartnell Console it must have been a VERY complex navigational display.   I knew that there was a LOT to the inner workings but I had no idea just how complex it actually was.

Although I find some of the newer column designs nice, I still wish that the old design could have been carried over somehow.

[Rassilons Rod]

WOW those are very impressive rassilonsrod   

Those three wide strips across from the ladder structure are where the wire mesh would go.   

From what has been said in various media about the central column in the Hartnell Console it must have been a VERY complex navigational display.   I knew that there was a LOT to the inner workings but I had no idea just how complex it actually was.

Although I find some of the newer column designs nice, I still wish that the old design could have been carried over somehow.

Thanks for the praise With regard to the other columns, I imagine I'll do some renders of both designs at some point when I'm done with this one... 5 Docs is one I'm quite interested in too

Wire mesh? Hmmm can't see that in any of my caps... Not sure how that would fit in... I agree on the complexity... I was marvelling at the damage of it in Inferno and thinking how expensive it must have been to make the thing back in 63!


FlashGordon: Hi there, thanks for posting your pic... it would go someway to explaining some of the inconsistencies, such as the one in my grab from Tomb of the Cybermen... It does seem pretty clear that the paddles are at angles though so I'm not sure how that tallies with your diagram...

>>>>>>>>

My one gripe with my render is that I think the area with the paddles is too deep at the moment... I think to divide it between the paddles and the dumbell/basket would be about ½ and ½. But I think it looks too tall even without the basket in place...   :-/

-Marc

[Rassilons Rod]

Ok, having scrutinised the pictures some more, I have put in some spacers between the paddles, which should be made of clear plastic... and fixed the scaling of the paddle section (I think it should be about equal size to the basket and dumbell section)... Also added the bases and the basket

Static


Rotating


All


-Marc
PS, no idea why I dated the previous ones 2005! lol

EDIT: Just noticed a problem with one of the supports at the back... I'll edit that when I get back to it... but I think its more or less done now apart from the texturing

[Rassilons Rod]

Flash, took me a while to understand your diagram with relation to the reference photos. My fault more than your diagram I think! lol   I think you're right about the E shaped thing, but I think its more the way I have done it, with plastic spaceers. I can't see any side bits on there...

UNLESS you mean the supports for the clear rods that the black bits go through... I spotted that and ended up remaking the paddles entirely lol And then added the plastic spacers in right at the end. Probably my renders will become a whole load clearer once I have textured it.

Once thats done, we can nail the sizes a lot better I think

-Marc