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Ashcombe Avenue, Surbiton Box

Started by hb88banzai, Mar 06, 2013, 03:55 pm

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hb88banzai

Mar 06, 2013, 03:55 pm Last Edit: Jun 09, 2015, 01:05 pm by hb88banzai
At long last it appears this Box has been found.

I give you the Box on Ashcombe Avenue, Surbiton - V47

Photo appears to be very soon after installation, so circa 1931 --

Ashcombe_Avenue_Box-V47-(c1931-reduced).jpg

Of note is that the Met List has the site a good 60 yards south of where it is in this photo, but it also states it was resited, so apparently this is the original location with the description in the Met List being where it was moved to at some later date.

The evidence...

PC 223.V out of V Division --
Ashcombe_Avenue_Box-V47-(c1931)-PCcollar.JPG

The house across the street --
Ashcombe_Avenue_Box-V47-(c1931)-House.JPG
Ashcombe_Avenue_Box-V47-HouseStreetview.JPG

The wall visible between the van and the Box --
Ashcombe_Avenue_Box-V47-(c1931)-Wall.JPG
Ashcombe_Avenue_Box-V47-WallStreetview1.JPG
Ashcombe_Avenue_Box-V47-WallStreetview2.JPG

The bend in the road visible just to the left of the Box --
Ashcombe_Avenue_Box-V47-(c1931)-Curve.JPG
Ashcombe_Avenue_Box-V47-CurveStreetview.JPG

Plus, of course, the general geography of the street and sidewalks with the grassy verges next to the curb across the street large enough for trees and verges on the house side of the sidewalk on the near side large enough for the Box with paving to the curb.

Where everything lines up with the photo is about here (some 85 yards north of Southborough Close) --
Ashcombe_Avenue_Box-V47-ApproxPhotoSiteStreetview.JPG

Site URL per Photo:  http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Southborough+Close,+Surbiton,+UK&hl=en&ll=51.385656,-0.306973&spn=0.008463,0.042186&sll=51.383895,-0.304769&sspn=0.001948,0.0042&t=m&hnear=Southborough+Close&layer=c&cbll=51.385647,-0.306967&panoid=L8wwVDWxT5CdRT6JUDG9yA&cbp=12,227.48,,0,9.42&z=15

As you can see, it looks like part of the foundation paving for the Box is still there --
Ashcombe_Avenue_Box-V47-SiteFoundationStreetview.JPG

For comparison, per the Met List the probable final location for this Box was here (25 yards north of Southborough Close) --
Ashcombe_Avenue_Box-V47-MetListSiteStreetview.JPG

Site URL per Met List:  http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Southborough+Close,+Surbiton,+UK&hl=en&ll=51.385366,-0.306352&spn=0.009334,0.021093&sll=51.383895,-0.304769&sspn=0.001948,0.0042&t=m&hnear=Southborough+Close&layer=c&cbll=51.385366,-0.306352&panoid=wWZSaCHWhR4s2uhFCIeQVw&cbp=12,213.13,,0,7.53&z=16

hb88banzai

Mar 06, 2013, 04:09 pm #1 Last Edit: Mar 06, 2013, 04:54 pm by hb88banzai
This is a very important photo as it is a very early photo of a Box that was commissioned in March of 1931 in the second group (out of three) of the very first all-concrete Met Boxes ever built. These were constructed by Somerville & Co. Ltd. (for £43 each) to complete the system of Call Boxes in V Division after the success of the first 22 Timber Boxes there the previous year.

Here are some interesting details --

Still has the early (red) globe beacon, though of a slightly different design --
Ashcombe_Avenue_Box-V47-(c1931)-Beacon.JPG

Nice view of the top sign showing the typeface used (probably blue on a white or frosted glass background) --
Ashcombe_Avenue_Box-V47-(c1931)-Sign.JPG

Window & lock details --
Ashcombe_Avenue_Box-V47-(c1931)-WindowLock.JPG

Phone door --
Ashcombe_Avenue_Box-V47-(c1931)-PhoneDoor.JPG

Lower signs --
Ashcombe_Avenue_Box-V47-(c1931)-LowerSigns.JPG

And the Box's base --
Ashcombe_Avenue_Box-V47-(c1931)-Base.JPG

Note that these were all derived from a photo from the Met Archive, so please no unauthorized use outside this forum.

hb88banzai

Per Mike/plumbly7, this photo is of the same Box some time after it was fitted with one of the new Fresnel Beacons (circa 1932-1935) --

Ashcombe_Avenue_Box-V47-(c1935-reduced).jpg

Note that the same type of fencing as is in the photo still backs the Site --

Ashcombe_Avenue_Box-V47-(c1935)-BackingFenceStreetview.JPG

petewilson

Excellent deduction Mr banzai!  ;D

Dalekoracle

Absolutely brilliant detective work there! I'm so happy that the scans I sent across are providing you with so much additional information - cross checking V division with the Policemans badge number is inspired!
Mark
:)

Mark

Unfortunately the high rez pictures Mark sent me are on my old pc which is fairly ill (well, doesn't work anymore!) but looking at these two pictures of the box is it my eyes or is the front sign box wonky?

What I mean is the picture looking from the right shows the sign box to be almost level with the right corner post half circle moulding (Barnet Style) while the first picture looking from the left side makes the edge of the sign box being nearer the center of the left corner post (Crich style).

I find it hard to believe a new set of sign boxes were installed so (unless the low rez pictures are playing tricks with my eyes) rulers were hardly used!

Volpone

Am I getting confused again, or is there a change between the plans and the execution?  Last night I thought I was looking at the actual plan drawings and they pretty decisively lack any noticeable taper to the top of the base.  But this box has a very pronounced taper to the top of the base. 
"My dear Litefoot, I've got a lantern and a pair of waders, and possibly the most fearsome piece of hand artillery in all England. What could possibly go wrong?"
-The Doctor.

hb88banzai

Mar 07, 2013, 03:06 am #7 Last Edit: Mar 07, 2013, 03:36 am by hb88banzai
I should have mentioned something about the wonky signs!

Yes, your eyes do not deceive, they are highly askew. First noticed this on Barnet itself many moons ago. Seems the pre-Crich top sign boxes, their outer housing being just bolted on to the ring beam, were often rather haphazardly aligned left-to-right, even to the point of being radically different from one another on the same box. So much for build quality.  :(

And the plans - I often think those were just drawn up to torment future Box spotters!   ;D

More seriously, I think they were used as a rough guide - an ideal (though a rough one) to try to duplicate. Trench just said "here, like this" and the builders then went and did what they needed to do to make it at the tendered price. There were probably even slight changes made by a particular builder during the production run to either make things better, or cheaper as feedback came in from the line or the Met (or both) -- inevitable design creep.

Not only that, but as was mentioned by others a long time ago in one of the previous incarnations of this forum, it's pretty obvious that the Trench plans as we (and the Met) currently have them are not the original version (over and above the fact they are for concrete boxes, not timber). They appear to be a redrawn set made at a time when certain changes were being planned to the top signage (among other things), probably before the final version was decided upon. They have aspects of the first concrete Boxes like this one (Type 2s) and other aspects, including signage, more towards the Transitional Mark 1s (Type 3s) that came out circa early 1936. The details of some parts even differ from each other from one plan view to another! I'd place their date as somewhere in 1935, themselves traced from the plans for the first concrete Boxes of late 1930 before the necessary changes were made. We see the same thing in the BBC plans for the TYJ TARDISs.

It's an interesting question, really, whether Trench actually did more than draft designs and plans for a concrete version of the original timber boxes actually designed by somebody else (arguably perfecting the design in the process). Circumstantial and anecdotal evidence suggests that the separate builders for the prototype boxes designed their own versions to meet the Met's requirements for the Beacontree experimental installation back in 1928, and as such the Type 1 timber boxes just may have been initially designed by the winning entry builder - G. Groves & Sons. After all, the concrete boxes themselves (before the Mark 3s) retain a tremendous amount of detail more in keeping with something made out of wood - vestiges of rails and stiles, molding, etc. Something more akin to what a capenter/cabinet maker would build.

hb88banzai

Mar 07, 2013, 09:40 am #8 Last Edit: Mar 07, 2013, 09:47 am by hb88banzai
I believe I have visual confirmation that these two photos are indeed of the same Box. Close examination of the two photos side by side at full resolution shows multiple casting defects and marks that seem to match up to the limits of resolution. There is also damage to one corner of the base that matches in location, size and shape. The wonky front sign box alignments also match.

That said, along with the Fresnel Beacon the newer photo also shows that the sign glass has been replaced --

Ashcombe_Avenue_Box-V47-(c1935)-TopSign.JPG

Same typeface, but of a significantly lighter weight (ie, the strokes of the letters are thinner).

As with Chiswick High Road (F4), I wonder why this particular Box was used for publicity photos on multiple occasions.

hb88banzai

Mar 13, 2013, 06:59 am #9 Last Edit: Mar 13, 2013, 07:01 am by hb88banzai
Looking at the angles again and taking into consideration that the street view is taken from the middle of the street, following lines of sight I believe that the actual Box Site wasn't where the extension of paving was - instead, I think it was here --

Ashcombe_Avenue_Box-V47-RevSiteStreetview.JPG

It may only be wishful thinking after so many years, but that oddly shaped access plate in the sidewalk looks to be the same size and shape (and location) as the one visible in the original photo, as well as the edge of something similar in the second photo.

Revised Site Street View URL:  http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Southborough+Close,+Surbiton,+UK&hl=en&ll=51.385656,-0.306973&spn=0.016552,0.036049&sll=51.383895,-0.304769&sspn=0.001948,0.0042&t=m&hnear=Southborough+Close&layer=c&cbll=51.385594,-0.306851&panoid=KCktDabWsPHxhlyNdr2Dlg&cbp=12,196.62,,0,8.78&z=15

EDIT: I have confirmation from an Ordnance Survey Map that this new location is where it actually was (at least c.1956). This makes the Box about 65 yards north of Southborough Close.

hb88banzai

Jun 09, 2015, 12:37 pm #10 Last Edit: Jun 09, 2015, 12:47 pm by hb88banzai
A cleaner and slightly higher resolution version of the first and earliest photo for this Box, courtesy of Tim Clayton (trc11), who scanned it from an original photograph (the full photo reduced a bit in resolution here to fit the Forum limits) --

Ashcombe_Avenue_Box-V47-(c1930)-MedRes2.jpg

And here's the full resolution photo cropped to just show the Box, to keep things small enough to post --

Ashcombe_Avenue_Box-V47-(c1930)-HiRes2-Cropped.jpg

We can now identify this photo as being from early March 1931, part of a campaign to publicize the introduction of the new Mark 2, all-concrete Met Boxes first introduced in Kingston sub-division.

lym

One of my all time favourite police box photos, cleaned up and colourised!

ash.jpg

hb88banzai


Angelus Lupus

Quote from: lymerence on Apr 11, 2018, 01:48 am
One of my all time favourite police box photos, cleaned up and colourised!


As someone who also occasionally gets the urge to colourise nice Police Box images, I have to like this!  ;D
A mixed-up non-conformist, trying to fit in.

Kingpin

Oct 17, 2018, 01:34 pm #14 Last Edit: Oct 17, 2018, 01:36 pm by Kingpin
My eyes could be deceiving me, but the typeface of the "POLICE" signs looks like the appropriately-named Copperplate Gothic (Std Heavy) (or a lookalike, although CG is a good candidate as it was created in 1901):

Copperplate_Gothic.jpg