Crich Box Original Location

[starcross]

I was reading through the MET database and found a little bit of a knot that needs untying.
Where did the Crich Box come from?

There are two boxes in the database that state "Removed to storage".
M7 - Lower Road, south side at China Hall gate (Southwark Park)
T20 - Charlton Road, west side opposite Station Road

Since it has been said that the Box and the Post at Crich was donated by the Met Police, it is reasonable to assume that it was from their storage facility and not from the streets directly.

Can anyone recall anything about how the Crich box arrived at the museum?

[Mark]

The sign with calling instructions which was inside the phone cubby hole (some sort of later addition I think) states that ".....you will be connected to TOOTING P.S.".

Now I do remember seeing a police box number attached to the inside (on the exterior of the phone housing) but I don't have a picture which shows it. When I created my sketchup model I included the identification number in the location I found it and used the number 40. As I don't have any picture evidence I can't say 100% if this is the actual number I saw but would have to believe I would have used the one I saw on the box.

I don't have time to check the list but perhaps if one of the boxes came from somewhere within the Tooting Police Station area or one had box number 40 as its number?

I do remember talk about the origins of the Chrich box years ago on one of the predecessors to this forum and I'm sure there was talk of Ealing Broadway or something similar?

Doesn't really clear the matter up but may help a little?

[hb88banzai]

Tooting is in W Division, so if your recollection is correct and it was Box 40, then...

   W40    Box       18-Jul-32    05 Nov 70    Kings Avenue, west side 60 yards north of Crescent Lane    Clapham

[hb88banzai]

Curious, though. Assuming this is W40, why would it connect to Tooting Station?

Tooting Station is a full 2.5 miles away (4 km) from the location of Box W40, while Clapham Police Station (W40 is in Clapham) is half that distance, and there is a Clapham Park/Cavendish Road Police Station 2/3 of a mile away (1 km).

Seems very odd. Perhaps it isn't W40?

[hb88banzai]

It's possible it was from wider afield, but as a starting point, these are the Tooting Boxes --

   W30    Box       18-Jul-32    Dec 71    Tooting Bec Road, south side 10 yards west of West Drive    Tooting       

Tooting Broadway Box    W31    Box       18-Jul-32    23 Sep 70    South corner of junction f Tooting High Street and Mitcham Road    Tooting       

   W32    Box       18-Jul-32    23 Sep 70    Wimbledon Road, east side 5 yards south of Garratt Lane    Tooting    

[Mark]

Fair point.

Unless there were changes to the police areas and perhaps Tooting was eventually in charge of a larger area?

Maybe someone out here has a picture of the inside which shows the box number (presuming it is the original one)?

[hb88banzai]

Always possible.

The data on Police Stations I gave was the current situation per Google, though the trend seems to have been to consolidate over the years so I would think there were more Stations in the past rather than fewer.

[hb88banzai]

Now that we have Sub-Division info from the Met List in the Database, we can see there were actually 11 Boxes in the Tooting Sub-Division. All were commissioned 18 July 1932 and most removed in 1970:

   W23    Box    A.R.W. Siren    Southwest corner of junction of London Road and Orchard Avenue - Beddington Corner - Tooting    

   W24    Box                  Southeast corner of junction of The Drive and Leominster Road - St Helier - Tooting    

   W25    Box                  Northeast corner of junction of Manor Road and Commonside East - Mitcham - Tooting    

   W26    Box    A.R.W. Siren    Rowan Road, east side 10 yards north of Longthornton Road - Lower Streatham - Tooting
(Sited on Z division. Transfered to Norbury sub-division (Z))

   W27    Box                  London Road, east side 20 yards north of Streatham Road - Mitcham - Tooting    

   W28    Box    A.R.W. Siren    High Street, west side 50 yards north of Priory Road - Colliers Wood - Tooting    

   W29    Box                  Mitcham Lane, west side 20 yards south of Southcroft Road - Lower Streatham -Tooting    

   W30    Box                  Tooting Bec Road, south side 10 yards west of West Drive - Tooting - Tooting    

   W31    Box                  South corner of junction of Tooting High Street and Mitcham Road - Tooting - Tooting    
(Tooting Broadway Box)

   W32    Box                  Wimbledon Road, east side 5 yards south of Garratt Lane - Tooting - Tooting    

   W46    Box                  Southeast corner of junction of Green Wrythe Lane and Middleton Road - Sutton - Tooting    


As you can see, W40 is not one of these. Instead, W40 is one of 8 Boxes in the Balham Sub-Division (Commissioned on the same date as Tooting's):

   W33    Box                  Earlsfield Road, north side 50 yards east of Garratt Lane  - Earlsfield - Balham    
(Resited)

   W34    Box    A.R.W. Siren    Balham High Street, west side opposite Oakmead Road - Balham - Balham    

   W35    Box                  Emanuel Road, north side 35 yards east of Radbourne Road - Streatham - Balham
(Sited on Z division)

   W36    Box                  Nightingale Lane, south side 30 yards east of Bracken Avenue - Balham - Balham    
(Wandsworth Prison Box)

   W37    Box                  Northwest corner of junction of Trinity Road and Alma Terrace - Wandsworth - Balham    
(Resited)

   W38    Box                  Clapham Common North Side, south side 15 yards west of The Avenue - Clapham - Balham    

   W39    Box    A.R.W. Siren    Clapham Common South Side, east side 25 yards south of Clapham High Street - Clapham - Balham    

   W40    Box                  Kings Avenue, west side 60 yards north of Crescent Lane - Clapham - Balham

The question is, would Balham sub-division report to Tooting P.S.? It is conceivable, in that the Tooting Police Station (built 1939) was a large, well staffed Police Station and Balham doesn't (at least at present) appear to have it's own P.S. (per Google, anyway). When reporting nearest Police Stations to Balham, Google lists Wandsworth first, followed by Tooting, even though Tooting is a little closer. Wandsworth, however, is in V Division, though I do note that one of the Balham Boxes is listed as being in the District of Wandsworth.

Still, Sub-Division naming aside, many of the Districts in the Balham Sub-Division do have their own small Police Stations. One wonders whether Police Boxes as a rule phoned in to the District Station, Sub-Division Station or just the nearest really large Police Station regardless of Sub-Division, or even Division. If the latter, W40 is still a possibility, but if Boxes generally phoned in to the nearest staffed District Station we would likely have to restrict ourselves to Tooting itself, or at least the Tooting Sub-Division.

Another blip on the radar is that the pictures of the Tooting Broadway Box (W31) seem to show it was a Crich style Box at least as far back as 1950 - I may have to invest in the Francis Frith photo to make sure. I also remember reading somewhere that the door on that Box was noticed to have been hung backwards, the person commenting on it being odd or a mistake due to damage or the like. Sounds like a dead giveaway for a Crich type Box! Wish I could find the comment again to confirm, though.

Does anybody know if there is any useful information on the label on the Box Log Book that's under perspex just inside the door of the Crich Box? Looks in one photo that there is something like "Book No. ??", but the image isn't clear enough to read completely. Then there is smaller writing underneath this that's impossible to read at all in the photo. I remember hearing the book itself is blank inside, but perhaps the label has at least a clue.

[Mark]

Yeah, the inside of the book is blank and has never been used. The outside label says "Book 88" and the little writing underneath is something to do with filling out the book properly using all the pages. There is no reference to the actual box number at all on the book.

I've mentioned before but I'm convinced I have seen the box number inside the box. In photo's of other boxes it appears on the inside back door of the phone cupbard but I'm sure I saw it (either in person or on a photo) on the inside somewhere above the fire extinguisher.

Racking my brains to try and remember.

[hb88banzai]

Yes, I remember. Was just hoping your memory might be jogged and/or had found a photo that has the number plate in it. I know the Trench plans specify the number plate to be on the phone box just inside the door, but it shows it to be squarely where the Fire Extinguisher Bracket actually is on every Met Box I've seen (at least after a certain date), so was wondering where it was actually located.

Well, some bogus results from Google (big surprise) - Lavendar Hill is closer to Balham Sub-Division than Wandsworth (about the same distance as Tooting), still in W Division, and looks to be even larger than Tooting. It's also a bit newer, but still looks to have been there for quite awhile.

Trinity Road P.S. in Tooting Bec is/was closest to Balham (now appears to be boarded up on the ground level), followed by the Clapham Park/Cavendish Road P.S. (by far the closest to W40), though Cavendish Road is only a medium sized station at best. Both appear to be quite old, so I'm sure they were active when Crich was.

Short of finding the number plate (if the original, of course), I suppose asking the Met where a Police Box call from Balham Sub-Division would have been routed in the 60s would be the ultimate solution to the question of the viability of W40 being the Crich Box - assuming they even know without having to do a lot of research on the question themselves.

[kiwidoc]

I was let into the box in my one journey to the UK and snapped some pictures but nothing useful in identification and I don't remember noticing anything like a number either.  Here is the perspex enclosure around the log book and the writing on it which is sadly very generic it seems.

[mechanoid]

It would be interesting, if not useful, to see the other inside pics you took!

[kiwidoc]

Well, if you're interested:
[attachid]q21.jpg[/attach][attachid]q22.jpg[/attach][attachid]q23.jpg[/attach][attachid]q24.jpg[/attach][attachid]q25.jpg[/attach][attachid]q26.jpg[/attach]

[mechanoid]

That's a treasure trove, to be sure. Wonderfully detailed. Thank you!

[hb88banzai]

Absolutely wonderful - many thanks!

It looks like a few photos didn't get uploaded, though (perhaps hitting the per-post size limit) - q21 through q26 are missing.

It's amazing that with so many photos posted over the years and so much interest that so much had yet to be seen by most of us in such detail. A huge addition to our knowledge base. Great stuff!